nubbiThe only thing i don't understand is if the spoon was this op and the best weapon in the game (cuz based on what people say in the thread thats what they think) then why are there 3 prem/invite players combined that use it?
Not everyone is skilled with the spoon, hence few people use it. However, the spoon does become OP with the few people who are good with it. It's about the user, not the weapon.
nubbiAlso to me it kinda looks like its only the salty medic mains crying who don't have good movement and haven't got very good awareness
In these clips, the medic was aware of the soldier and I don't think their movement was "bad".
A medic can juke/dodge/surf a soldier using rockets, while with the spoon, there's practically nothing anyone can do about it except pop or drop.
chiefdogI could be wrong but isn't mg really easy to counter with good awareness, good movement and a scout? Should we not reward skilled weapons and outplay potential? Isn't it a good thing if a good enough soldier can break a stalemate with a set off good jumps and a well timed spoon?
In stalemates, I think both teams should have almost equal chances of winning. The issue arises when the attacking team has a market gardener soldier. They have time to prepare and get a good jump in (for example, soapymesiter's clip), while the defending team will not have such a great opportunity if they counter sac (with the spoon) since the enemy is more prepared and expecting and also playing passive positions. Haven't you noticed how the market gardener almost always excels when you are attacking with point advantage? It does not favor both sides equally when breaking stalemates with the spoon.
The market gardener can achieve more than any launcher for less skill/aim. The few people who can use it terrorize other teams, and it is really hard to counter. That is why it is overpowered, ban the spoon.
These are poor choices and if you watch all these clips it shows,
1. LOLGUY is just spamming a and d instead of being in a position is viable for him to not be forced and actually see the soldier coming. This isn't mg being op because a sniper could easily peak him from cafe like this as there is no one denying the choke and it's a free headshot similarly to the mg kill.
2. Plaidium had a decent position but his scout/demo/lack off class?? failed to kill a soldier who is in by himself with no support just as soapy had to hit the bhop as well for this to work. This again isn't the weapon being op, defending team had more than enough time to kill him but their setup was shit and their scout equally as so and the bhop mechanic is just a good display of skill.
3. You honestly believe this was good movement? Guys holding s in a straight line. Of course he is going to get a kill on the medic like this but again Jay if he's using rockets here can easily just land on his head and get a simple two rocket. Similarly again, there just isn't a scout/enough classes around the medic.
If I played against a soldier (gink) who put time and effort into beggars bazooka and made the game his bitch, I wouldn't complain it's overpowered, I'd be thinking on how to adapt to what is going on. The good spoon players do exactly this by practising and practising in order to develop good timing/situations where the spoon can be viable. The same goes for paintrain, it's only viable in certain situations.
Does nubbi hit every spoon he goes for? No, because he adapts to what happens, sometimes he will go for one but a large majority miss.
Your argument over equal chances of winning is incorrect, there is plenty of times to do a counter sac, push out when the attacking team sends in a sac as well, if you're a team that's on the ball, you can do it before the attackers even attempt their own play e.g using uber ad, pyro sniper push out, syncing with a spy play, coordinated aggression on a lobby area, list goes on mate. Again, the second clip has no defensive offclasses so they played into Soapy's hands.
The spoon isn't op, it's just lack of thoughts/gamesense of what is going to happen and who you are playing against. It can be countered very easily and this one of the things I tell people who want mentoring, adapt to who you play, pay attention to what they do and use it against them.
Simiarly, what mustard linked previously about I said about the iron bomber still stands, the weapon isn't overpowered, it's a viable way for demo to stay relevant in this current game and not all demos can still put up the numbers/impact required even with this weapon. If all demos where able to drop 10k every game and make everyone's life a misery, then I'd agree but the fact is, I can play against all the prem demos and see mediocre numbers/impact with this "overpowered" weapon and outcome would have fuck all change if they were using stock pipes/loose cannon.