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Monthly RGL Thread: July 2021
91
#91
33 Frags +
ghadilliI understand that you guys are sensitive gamers, but if you want people to stop making fun of you for lying and being incompetent, stop lying and being incompetent. It literally could not be any simpler. You guys have had literal years to sort this shit out and it keeps happening every few weeks like clockwork. Either make a change or put on your big boy pants and live with the fact that doing a shitty job means people are going to be upset with you. This 'hey i know you guys are upset that we've proven to be incompetent on repeat every few weeks for years now and we refuse to make a change for the better, but please be nice :)' act is beyond aggravating. Grow up.

Let me preface this all by saying I am not going to defend every action that every admin has ever made in RGL history.
However, since you are replying specifically to Scream, let's look at some facts:

  • This is Scream's first season as an admin.
  • Scream has multiple seasons of advanced 6s, he is clearly good at the game.
  • Scream has, throughout this thread, advocated for the correct decisions to be made, as well as been exceptionally respectful and patient.
  • Bonus fact: he also claimed to have advocated for a change in the ruling regarding the actual OP of the thread.

If we, as a community, want more admins that are good players, patient, respectful, and make good decisions, we should recognize it when we see it.
I know it feels good to get mad at someone and that sort of thing, but that is not how progress is made.

Now this last part is conjecture, but I think if we support the admins, such as Scream, who consistently advocate for what is right, we can perhaps get these admins into places where they have the power to make decisions that benefit everyone.

[quote=ghadilli]I understand that you guys are sensitive gamers, but if you want people to stop making fun of you for lying and being incompetent, [u][b]stop lying and being incompetent[/b][/u]. It literally could not be any simpler. You guys have had literal years to sort this shit out and it keeps happening every few weeks like clockwork. Either make a change or put on your big boy pants and live with the fact that doing a shitty job means people are going to be upset with you. This 'hey i know you guys are upset that we've proven to be incompetent on repeat every few weeks for years now and we refuse to make a change for the better, but please be nice :)' act is beyond aggravating. Grow up.[/quote]

Let me preface this all by saying I am not going to defend every action that every admin has ever made in RGL history.
However, since you are replying specifically to Scream, let's look at some facts:
[list]
[*] This is Scream's first season as an admin.
[*] Scream has multiple seasons of advanced 6s, he is clearly good at the game.
[*] Scream has, throughout this thread, advocated for the correct decisions to be made, as well as been exceptionally respectful and patient.
[*] Bonus fact: he also claimed to have advocated for a change in the ruling regarding the actual OP of the thread.
[/list]
If we, as a community, want more admins that are good players, patient, respectful, and make good decisions, we should recognize it when we see it.
I know it feels good to get mad at someone and that sort of thing, but that is not how progress is made.

Now this last part is conjecture, but I think if we support the admins, such as Scream, who consistently advocate for what is right, we can perhaps get these admins into places where they have the power to make decisions that benefit everyone.
92
#92
14 Frags +

the dude said "you guys" multiple times so obviously he is talking about the ones who hold the most sway in the admin team, not the newcomer on it.

the dude said "you guys" multiple times so obviously he is talking about the ones who hold the most sway in the admin team, not the newcomer on it.
93
#93
17 Frags +

I just want to double clarify that most of the fault with our IM fiasco is with queequey for being a huge baby and a rule nerd. From talking about this situation with people I've heard a surprising number of accounts of him doing similar stuff in the past so I wouldn't put too much on RGL there.

Fleskore screwed up by:
1) Not posting his approval in match comms, or contacting anyone on our team about it in any way, leading us to believe that their denial was never approved. From our perspective they attempted to deny our default ringer and nothing came of it, so even if the denial was reasonable we would have no way to know we had to find another ringer
2) Taking (RGL staff member) queequey's word at face value that darty is an egregious ringer on medic, instead of looking at his logs or asking any other players. Not every admin has to know every player but it's really easy to assess most people's rough skill level in like 5 minutes (especially when there's division-specific admins)

The first is fixed by better-written rules and better layed out procedures for admins to follow, like Scream said
The second is either favoritism, ignorance + laziness, or incompetence
Neither would be a problem if a mid-IM player who already missed playoffs hadn't tried to scum a win by denying a default med ringer

And once again, Scream did a really good job with the situation, putting in the time and knowledge (while out of town) to know how good Darty was, and made sure everyone was aware of his decision and what needed to happen

I just want to double clarify that most of the fault with our IM fiasco is with queequey for being a huge baby and a rule nerd. From talking about this situation with people I've heard a surprising number of accounts of him doing similar stuff in the past so I wouldn't put too much on RGL there.

Fleskore screwed up by:
1) Not posting his approval in match comms, or contacting anyone on our team about it in any way, leading us to believe that their denial was never approved. From our perspective they [b]attempted[/b] to deny our default ringer and nothing came of it, so even if the denial was reasonable we would have no way to know we had to find another ringer
2) Taking (RGL staff member) queequey's word at face value that darty is an egregious ringer on medic, instead of looking at his logs or asking any other players. Not every admin has to know every player but it's really easy to assess most people's rough skill level in like 5 minutes (especially when there's division-specific admins)

The first is fixed by better-written rules and better layed out procedures for admins to follow, like Scream said
The second is either favoritism, ignorance + laziness, or incompetence
Neither would be a problem if a mid-IM player who already missed playoffs hadn't tried to scum a win by denying a default med ringer

And once again, Scream did a really good job with the situation, putting in the time and knowledge (while out of town) to know how good Darty was, and made sure everyone was aware of his decision and what needed to happen
94
#94
1 Frags +
sacthe dude said "you guys" multiple times so obviously he is talking about the ones who hold the most sway in the admin team, not the newcomer on it.

yeah I don't think it was really out of line so far as speaking at a "representative of rgl providing publicly stated information on behalf of rgl as a current member of staff" goes. I respect Scream stepping up when he very obviously had been given/incompletely caught up with information of the situation but...

arcadiaLet me preface this all by saying I am not going to defend every action that every admin has ever made in RGL history.
However, since you are replying specifically to Scream, let's look at some facts:
  • This is Scream's first season as an admin.
  • Bonus fact: he also claimed to have advocated for a change in the ruling regarding the actual OP of the thread.
If we, as a community, want more admins that are good players, patient, respectful, and make good decisions, we should recognize it when we see it.
I know it feels good to get mad at someone and that sort of thing, but that is not how progress is made.

Now this last part is conjecture, but I think if we support the admins, such as Scream, who consistently advocate for what is right, we can perhaps get these admins into places where they have the power to make decisions that benefit everyone.

Scream obviously shouldn't have been the one forced to talk because he is a "noob" admin being dumped into an unwinnable PR shitshow with incomplete information, and to the extent that it is Scream's fault it is obvious he didn't catch up properly with the thread or Setsul wouldn't have had to repost context. This is still on RGL, and to some extent I think Scream was right to step up, but to some extent he was wrong to step up unprepared. I don't want to shit on Scream, but Scream is currently acting as RGL and RGL deserves much more than this. This is simply an unfavorable context for Scream and chances are everyone here would be perfectly fine with him in any other context such as pugs.

Brody also basically covered everything else. This post may seem incomplete because it knowingly is.

[quote=sac]the dude said "you guys" multiple times so obviously he is talking about the ones who hold the most sway in the admin team, not the newcomer on it.[/quote]
yeah I don't think it was really out of line so far as speaking at a "representative of rgl providing publicly stated information on behalf of rgl as a current member of staff" goes. I respect Scream stepping up when he very obviously had been given/incompletely caught up with information of the situation but...
[quote=arcadia]
Let me preface this all by saying I am not going to defend every action that every admin has ever made in RGL history.
However, since you are replying specifically to Scream, let's look at some facts:
[list]
[*] This is Scream's first season as an admin.
[*] Bonus fact: he also claimed to have advocated for a change in the ruling regarding the actual OP of the thread.
[/list]
If we, as a community, want more admins that are good players, patient, respectful, and make good decisions, we should recognize it when we see it.
I know it feels good to get mad at someone and that sort of thing, but that is not how progress is made.

Now this last part is conjecture, but I think if we support the admins, such as Scream, who consistently advocate for what is right, we can perhaps get these admins into places where they have the power to make decisions that benefit everyone.[/quote]
Scream obviously shouldn't have been the one forced to talk because he is a "noob" admin being dumped into an unwinnable PR shitshow with incomplete information, and to the extent that it is Scream's fault it is obvious he didn't catch up properly with the thread or Setsul wouldn't have had to repost context. This is still on RGL, and to some extent I think Scream was right to step up, but to some extent he was wrong to step up unprepared. I don't want to shit on Scream, but Scream is currently acting as RGL and RGL deserves much more than this. This is simply an unfavorable context for Scream and chances are everyone here would be perfectly fine with him in any other context such as pugs.

Brody also basically covered everything else. This post may seem incomplete because it knowingly is.
95
#95
10 Frags +
sunderkeeninScream obviously shouldn't have been the one forced to talk because he is a "noob" admin being dumped into an unwinnable PR shitshow with incomplete information, and to the extent that it is Scream's fault it is obvious he didn't catch up properly with the thread or Setsul wouldn't have had to repost context. This is still on RGL, and to some extent I think Scream was right to step up, but to some extent he was wrong to step up unprepared. I don't want to shit on Scream, but Scream is currently acting as RGL and RGL deserves much more than this. This is simply an unfavorable context for Scream and chances are everyone here would be perfectly fine with him in any other context such as pugs.

I was aware that at match time, Fleskore knew that Darty was trying to ring medic, it's something I just did not mention in my original post as I wasn't being specific enough, hence why Setsul posted context. The only thing I was genuinely unaware of was what was said specifically on the match page. Outside of that, I don't feel I came unprepared to this thread, and assure you I read it over 3 times before even writing my post. Secondly, the reason I posted was to clear up something for my division, this is why I barely mentioned the invite situation because it is largely out of my hands. If you feel that RGL "deserves more" than me at least attempting to post, then I truly don't know how to satisfy you. As you said, this is "an unwinnable PR shitshow", so whatever attempt was made, whether it was me or another person, it would never be good enough for what "RGL deserves". Also, I have absolutely no idea what the last sentence means, whether the context is being an RGL admin (which I assume it is) or just existing on tftv?? lmfao. Lastly, I'd like to say that no one put me up to this but myself, I was the one who volunteered for this (in fact I did a couple of days ago, immediately after this situation was mentioned) because I wanted to try and propagate discussion, instead of the usual radio silence that the community has experienced with RGL in the past. I'd like to think I've done a better job of that in this thread, but ultimately that is up to others to decide.

Edit:

Setsul

Just to clarify with mods, they have the same powers as admins, there really is not a difference (which I admit is confusing). The only large difference is that Admins typically do more for their specific division, whether that be demo checks, ticket answering, etc. Admins/mods of specific divisions are told to stay in their lane, which basically means that I, for example, can only accept players to rosters, list minor penalties, etc. for IM teams (i.e. admins should only complete administrative tasks for their division, this keeps people in their zones and also serves to prevent favoritism). The mistakes we made are listed in Brody's post above, which I believe covers the rest of the concerns here.

[quote=sunderkeenin]
Scream obviously shouldn't have been the one forced to talk because he is a "noob" admin being dumped into an unwinnable PR shitshow with incomplete information, and to the extent that it is Scream's fault it is obvious he didn't catch up properly with the thread or Setsul wouldn't have had to repost context. This is still on RGL, and to some extent I think Scream was right to step up, but to some extent he was wrong to step up unprepared. I don't want to shit on Scream, but Scream is currently acting as RGL and RGL deserves much more than this. This is simply an unfavorable context for Scream and chances are everyone here would be perfectly fine with him in any other context such as pugs.[/quote]
I was aware that at match time, Fleskore knew that Darty was trying to ring medic, it's something I just did not mention in my original post as I wasn't being specific enough, hence why Setsul posted context. The only thing I was genuinely unaware of was what was said specifically on the match page. Outside of that, I don't feel I came unprepared to this thread, and assure you I read it over 3 times before even writing my post. Secondly, the reason I posted was to clear up something for my division, this is why I barely mentioned the invite situation because it is largely out of my hands. If you feel that RGL "deserves more" than me at least attempting to post, then I truly don't know how to satisfy you. As you said, this is "an unwinnable PR shitshow", so whatever attempt was made, whether it was me or another person, it would never be good enough for what "RGL deserves". Also, I have absolutely no idea what the last sentence means, whether the context is being an RGL admin (which I assume it is) or just existing on tftv?? lmfao. Lastly, I'd like to say that no one put me up to this but myself, I was the one who volunteered for this (in fact I did a couple of days ago, immediately after this situation was mentioned) because I wanted to try and propagate discussion, instead of the usual radio silence that the community has experienced with RGL in the past. I'd like to think I've done a better job of that in this thread, but ultimately that is up to others to decide.

Edit:
[quote=Setsul][/quote]
Just to clarify with mods, they have the same powers as admins, there really is not a difference (which I admit is confusing). The only large difference is that Admins typically do more for their specific division, whether that be demo checks, ticket answering, etc. Admins/mods of specific divisions are told to stay in their lane, which basically means that I, for example, can only accept players to rosters, list minor penalties, etc. for IM teams (i.e. admins should only complete administrative tasks for their division, this keeps people in their zones and also serves to prevent favoritism). The mistakes we made are listed in Brody's post above, which I believe covers the rest of the concerns here.
96
#96
29 Frags +

idc enough to read all these posts but it is pretty hilarious that the situation is so dumb that euro pc build thread man setsul, who has no stakes in this whatsoever, is arguing with rgl admins about how blatantly stupid the decisions are

also on the topic of a new league, the only positive that ppl have pointed out is the casting production quality and no offense but that is not anything groundbreaking either, 50% of the time it's on a random player and then suddenly swaps to whatever player is going to get a kill (cheatfeed) and has no coherent decisions about which classes would be better to watch in a given situation (i know they try their hardest but the cheat feed is stupid to rely on, just cause u can show someone getting a kill doesn't mean it's a good idea when u can show the guy sacking's pov to see why he failed it)

idc enough to read all these posts but it is pretty hilarious that the situation is so dumb that euro pc build thread man setsul, who has no stakes in this whatsoever, is arguing with rgl admins about how blatantly stupid the decisions are

also on the topic of a new league, the only positive that ppl have pointed out is the casting production quality and no offense but that is not anything groundbreaking either, 50% of the time it's on a random player and then suddenly swaps to whatever player is going to get a kill (cheatfeed) and has no coherent decisions about which classes would be better to watch in a given situation (i know they try their hardest but the cheat feed is stupid to rely on, just cause u can show someone getting a kill doesn't mean it's a good idea when u can show the guy sacking's pov to see why he failed it)
97
#97
25 Frags +
bearodactylidc enough to read all these posts but it is pretty hilarious that the situation is so dumb that euro pc build thread man setsul, who has no stakes in this whatsoever, is arguing with rgl admins about how blatantly stupid the decisions are

I do have a stake here.
I'm not even playing TF2 anymore, I just come here for the drama, and RGL has been the most consistent source of drama since its inception.

[quote=bearodactyl]idc enough to read all these posts but it is pretty hilarious that the situation is so dumb that euro pc build thread man setsul, who has no stakes in this whatsoever, is arguing with rgl admins about how blatantly stupid the decisions are[/quote]
I do have a stake here.
I'm not even playing TF2 anymore, I just come here for the drama, and RGL has been the most consistent source of drama since its inception.
98
#98
12 Frags +

i think like 8% of all posts in rgl threads for the past 6 months have been setsul

i think like 8% of all posts in rgl threads for the past 6 months have been setsul
99
#99
18 Frags +

if I wanted to play NA competitive 6s and my only viable league choices were RGL or UGC, i'd play fortnite instead

I feel bad for NA players, it's a shame. The reality is that RGL fucks up pretty much every month if not more frequently, with inexplicable mistakes and awful admin decisions, and it looks like it gets worse and more meme every time. And you guys pay $15, $20, $30, $40 to participate in the league each season? You're getting scammed lmao, this is some fucking amateur management seriously.

Even if seniorsoda's team did throw the match and really did match fix, and b0nes' medic ringer really wasn't eligible to play, why is the whole decision process based around a single admin's decision and takes weeks to reverse or appeal? With the vast number of admin and organisational fuck ups over the past several months you'd think that RGL, a league that players literally pay to be in because it should offer a better service than free leagues, would have put some sort of system in place to minimise incorrect admin decisions and work with players/teams in the league to rebuild some trust.

Instead they give you a bullshit response saying the admin didn't know that the ringer was playing medic despite saying it several times in the Discord conversation, the team will look into it, an 'investigation and audit' will be conducted (we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing lol), etc.

if I wanted to play NA competitive 6s and my only viable league choices were RGL or UGC, i'd play fortnite instead

I feel bad for NA players, it's a shame. The reality is that RGL fucks up pretty much every month if not more frequently, with inexplicable mistakes and awful admin decisions, and it looks like it gets worse and more meme every time. And you guys pay $15, $20, $30, $40 to participate in the league each season? You're getting scammed lmao, this is some fucking amateur management seriously.

Even if seniorsoda's team did throw the match and really did match fix, and b0nes' medic ringer really wasn't eligible to play, why is the whole decision process based around a single admin's decision and takes weeks to reverse or appeal? With the vast number of admin and organisational fuck ups over the past several months you'd think that RGL, a league that players literally pay to be in because it should offer a better service than free leagues, would have put some sort of system in place to minimise incorrect admin decisions and work with players/teams in the league to rebuild some trust.

Instead they give you a bullshit response saying the admin didn't know that the ringer was playing medic despite saying it several times in the Discord conversation, the team will look into it, an 'investigation and audit' will be conducted (we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing lol), etc.
100
#100
13 Frags +

hate to sound like a cuck, but scream's been the closest to an rgl admin actually coming forth on a mistake and trying to make the right decision. you'd be hard pressed to find any real amount of "dirt" on him or bad mouthing from when real pug groups were a thing. One of those kinda of guys that would get group/pug mod just because of his track record and and word of mouth rep are pretty spotless.

hate to sound like a cuck, but scream's been the closest to an rgl admin actually coming forth on a mistake and trying to make the right decision. you'd be hard pressed to find any real amount of "dirt" on him or bad mouthing from when real pug groups were a thing. One of those kinda of guys that would get group/pug mod just because of his track record and and word of mouth rep are pretty spotless.
101
#101
13 Frags +
Pirateer5why is the whole decision process based around a single admin's decision and takes weeks to reverse or appeal?

yeah. hold on. time out.

don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen as if you can't just say in the groupchat:

"hey guys everyone is mad at us for this i think we fucked up"
"yeah" x3
"i'll just hop on the website real quick and revert this penalty"

as if it isn't 50x easier and doesnt screw players over?

if it does NOT happen this way @RGL please correct me but i swear ive seen this exact scenario before

[quote=Pirateer5]why is the whole decision process based around a single admin's decision and takes weeks to reverse or appeal? [/quote]
yeah. hold on. time out.

don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen as if you can't just say in the groupchat:
[quote]"hey guys everyone is mad at us for this i think we fucked up"
"yeah" x3
"i'll just hop on the website real quick and revert this penalty"[/quote]
as if it isn't 50x easier and doesnt screw players over?



if it does NOT happen this way @RGL please correct me but i swear ive seen this exact scenario before
102
#102
14 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIII
don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen as if you can't just say in the groupchat:

if it does NOT happen this way @RGL please correct me but i swear ive seen this exact scenario before

Coincidentally it happens every season to my teams and every season they reverse this shit 5-7 days later. At least safrix isn't getting demo checked every single game this season!

Also we got a warning for getting a ringer the night of the cast we were forced to play in with seeds having to go 2 min before the match. Let us go fuck ourselves for scrambling to put up a match due to your shitty ruleset, what is even the point to show up to a match if I need ringers when we are getting a penalty anyway? They ask us "which one of your games are worth casting" then when I provide an answer they tell me they will cast whatever they want anyway and I had no choice to begin with. Idk how but it turned to perma schizo hours dealing with this league on every front, yesterday's decisions are now all irrelevant because whoever is in charge had a change of heart or gets exposed for being a fucktard.

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]

don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen as if you can't just say in the groupchat:

if it does NOT happen this way @RGL please correct me but i swear ive seen this exact scenario before[/quote]

Coincidentally it happens every season to my teams and every season they reverse this shit 5-7 days later. At least safrix isn't getting demo checked every single game this season!

Also we got a warning for getting a ringer the night of the cast we were forced to play in with seeds having to go 2 min before the match. Let us go fuck ourselves for scrambling to put up a match due to your shitty ruleset, what is even the point to show up to a match if I need ringers when we are getting a penalty anyway? They ask us "which one of your games are worth casting" then when I provide an answer they tell me they will cast whatever they want anyway and I had no choice to begin with. Idk how but it turned to perma schizo hours dealing with this league on every front, yesterday's decisions are now all irrelevant because whoever is in charge had a change of heart or gets exposed for being a fucktard.
103
#103
payload.tf
10 Frags +

Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.

Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.
104
#104
14 Frags +
BuildBruhhate to sound like a cuck, but scream's been the closest to an rgl admin actually coming forth on a mistake and trying to make the right decision.

What he said. As an IM player this season, Scream has been an awesome admin. Infinitely more responsive than the admins I had in AM S5 and NC S4, and he understands that the rules are there to preserve competitive integrity, not to punish those that break them. I haven't heard a bad word about Scream from any IM players

[quote=BuildBruh]hate to sound like a cuck, but scream's been the closest to an rgl admin actually coming forth on a mistake and trying to make the right decision. [/quote]


What he said. As an IM player this season, Scream has been an awesome admin. Infinitely more responsive than the admins I had in AM S5 and NC S4, and he understands that the rules are there to preserve competitive integrity, not to punish those that break them. I haven't heard a bad word about Scream from any IM players
105
#105
-3 Frags +
24Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.

you cant expect sigafoo to make every decision in the league thats exactly why we got to this divsion admins system.
i understand the hate on sigafoo circlejerk but if a single guy fucks up, blame the guy that fucked up, especially when the decision is as appalling as punishing an invite team for playing badly with offclasses and mercs lol. (same guy who singlehandedly caused a tftv moderation shitstorm by locking every thread for no reason a few months ago.. hmm.. maybe we should take his toys away)

[quote=24]Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.[/quote]
you cant expect sigafoo to make every decision in the league thats exactly why we got to this divsion admins system.
i understand the hate on sigafoo circlejerk but if a single guy fucks up, blame the guy that fucked up, especially when the decision is as appalling as punishing an invite team for playing badly with offclasses and mercs lol. (same guy who singlehandedly caused a tftv moderation shitstorm by locking every thread for no reason a few months ago.. hmm.. maybe we should take his toys away)
106
#106
25 Frags +
24Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.

it's also up to the league owners to make sure that people like ire, with no understanding of this game beyond mid-IM, arent the ones deciding when invite players arent trying their hardest

[quote=24]Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.[/quote]
it's also up to the league owners to make sure that people like ire, with no understanding of this game beyond mid-IM, arent the ones deciding when invite players arent trying their hardest
107
#107
6 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIPirateer5why is the whole decision process based around a single admin's decision and takes weeks to reverse or appeal? yeah. hold on. time out.

don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen as if you can't just say in the groupchat:

if it does NOT happen this way @RGL please correct me but i swear ive seen this exact scenario before

yeah its here don't know if major/minor offence appeals are done more frequently: https://www.teamfortress.tv/59467/monthly-rgl-is-bad-thread/?page=3#61

one decision that I remember from a previous thread is when a player got banned/sanctioned only after paying the league fee, so RGL waited for him to pay to join the season before sanctioning him and keeping the money lmao, smart business strategy ngl

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII][quote=Pirateer5]why is the whole decision process based around a single admin's decision and takes weeks to reverse or appeal? [/quote]
yeah. hold on. time out.

don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen as if you can't just say in the groupchat:

if it does NOT happen this way @RGL please correct me but i swear ive seen this exact scenario before[/quote]

yeah its here don't know if major/minor offence appeals are done more frequently: https://www.teamfortress.tv/59467/monthly-rgl-is-bad-thread/?page=3#61

one decision that I remember from a previous thread is when a player got banned/sanctioned only after paying the league fee, so RGL waited for him to pay to join the season before sanctioning him and keeping the money lmao, smart business strategy ngl
108
#108
payload.tf
11 Frags +
BumFreeze24Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.
you cant expect sigafoo to make every decision in the league thats exactly why we got to this divsion admins system.
i understand the hate on sigafoo circlejerk but if a single guy fucks up, blame the guy that fucked up, especially when the decision is as appalling as punishing an invite team for playing badly with offclasses and mercs lol. (same guy who singlehandedly caused a tftv moderation shitstorm by locking every thread for no reason a few months ago.. hmm.. maybe we should take his toys away)

My point is that if a business owner or head admin is the one that isn't stepping in to make sure his league is being ran like he wants to, maybe there's something to be said about that.

Basically, as an owner or manager, you should take responsibility in the actions of not only you but also the people representing you or your image.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone makes decisions, and maybe those decisions are bad. It should be on not only the people who made those bad decisions but also the manager behind that person to step in to make sure it:
1) doesn't happen again
2) steps to resolve this situation
3) offer the opportunity to learn

It's really not hard to see this fault on both the individual admin or moderator and the head admin or manager. It's really just responsibility at that point.

Blaming the admins 100% will not help your situation at all. We should start blaming the people responsible for the decision and the people who oversee those who make desicions. I'm not jumping on sigafoo for this just because I hate him or I hate RGL, I genuinely think that if stuff like this needs to be prevented, there needs to be someone who can take action and responsibility fast. I don't think that's happening at RGL, and I think it's that which is the reason to which we get threads like this monthly. Sigafoo and Exa respectively have done their fair share of work, yes, but I think there should be some type of responsibility taken on their side, and if they cannot keep up, then I believe it'd be best to give it up to someone who can take full responsibility and be able to manage the whole team.

[quote=BumFreeze][quote=24]Blame your league owner and head admins instead of the volunteer division admins that put out countless hours to even try to remindy the terrible management at RGL.

Stuff like this happens, but the speed at which the reversal or apologies or even an explanation happens should not be as slow as weeks or even days.

It's really up to the league owners to step it up moreso than the individual division admins.[/quote]
you cant expect sigafoo to make every decision in the league thats exactly why we got to this divsion admins system.
i understand the hate on sigafoo circlejerk but if a single guy fucks up, blame the guy that fucked up, especially when the decision is as appalling as punishing an invite team for playing badly with offclasses and mercs lol. (same guy who singlehandedly caused a tftv moderation shitstorm by locking every thread for no reason a few months ago.. hmm.. maybe we should take his toys away)[/quote]
My point is that if a business owner or head admin is the one that isn't stepping in to make sure his league is being ran like he wants to, maybe there's something to be said about that.

Basically, as an owner or manager, you should take responsibility in the actions of not only you but also the people representing you or your image.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone makes decisions, and maybe those decisions are bad. It should be on not only the people who made those bad decisions but also the manager behind that person to step in to make sure it:
1) doesn't happen again
2) steps to resolve this situation
3) offer the opportunity to learn

It's really not hard to see this fault on both the individual admin or moderator and the head admin or manager. It's really just responsibility at that point.

Blaming the admins 100% will not help your situation at all. We should start blaming the people responsible for the decision and the people who oversee those who make desicions. I'm not jumping on sigafoo for this just because I hate him or I hate RGL, I genuinely think that if stuff like this needs to be prevented, there needs to be someone who can take action and responsibility fast. I don't think that's happening at RGL, and I think it's that which is the reason to which we get threads like this monthly. Sigafoo and Exa respectively have done their fair share of work, yes, but I think there should be some type of responsibility taken on their side, and if they cannot keep up, then I believe it'd be best to give it up to someone who can take full responsibility and be able to manage the whole team.
109
#109
19 Frags +

RGL about RGL Mods

https://i.imgur.com/X9ocj9n.jpeg

RGL about RGL Mods
[img]https://i.imgur.com/X9ocj9n.jpeg[/img]
110
#110
20 Frags +

okay guys i figured out the problem: sigafoo literally only cares about casual pubbers they wanna recruit, he knows the 6s community already dislikes RGL but will still play because of stockholm syndrome (and not having any other options)

all we gotta do is make big reddit threads every month on why RGL sucks and we need a new league with better management, only problem is that requires interacting with www.reddit.com

fr tho i feel like when big shitstorms like this happen people could totally repost them on there so pubbers or newcomer people or whatever see how dumb this shit is and RGL is forced to actually care about it to some degree

okay guys i figured out the problem: sigafoo literally only cares about casual pubbers they wanna recruit, he knows the 6s community already dislikes RGL but will still play because of stockholm syndrome (and not having any other options)

all we gotta do is make big reddit threads every month on why RGL sucks and we need a new league with better management, only problem is that requires interacting with www.reddit.com

fr tho i feel like when big shitstorms like this happen people could totally repost them on there so pubbers or newcomer people or whatever see how dumb this shit is and RGL is forced to actually care about it to some degree
111
#111
10 Frags +

RGL and NA should be used as a case study for Stockholm syndrome or abusive relationships. Its been almost 2 years of monthly threads about how shit RGL is, yet yall keep coming back. It would be funnier if it wasn't so sad.

RGL and NA should be used as a case study for Stockholm syndrome or abusive relationships. Its been almost 2 years of monthly threads about how shit RGL is, yet yall keep coming back. It would be funnier if it wasn't so sad.
112
#112
13 Frags +

still cant believe ppl let sigafoo be head of anything

still cant believe ppl let sigafoo be head of anything
113
#113
6 Frags +

its mental illness, love

its mental illness, love
114
#114
26 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIIIdon't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen

Sounds about right since my team still has a major penalty on our team page 4 days later when the entire process should've taken 3 minutes and consisted of removing the penalty and booting Ire from their discord.

I'm just gonna come out and say it cause RGL is taking way too long to resolve this: Ire clearly has a vendetta against alfa and other former MAL players. I can't think of anyone else in invite that has gotten this kind of treatment. Ire should be removed of his admin or at least be relegated to divisions where invite players will never have to interact with him since he can't seem to separate his personal feelings from his admin duties.

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]
don't the admins meet once a week to repeal this type of shit?? haven't people gotten fucked over because some ruling happens the day they meet and then a WEEK has to go by in order for the repeal to happen[/quote]

Sounds about right since my team still has a major penalty on our team page 4 days later when the entire process should've taken 3 minutes and consisted of removing the penalty and booting Ire from their discord.

I'm just gonna come out and say it cause RGL is taking way too long to resolve this: Ire clearly has a vendetta against alfa and other former MAL players. I can't think of anyone else in invite that has gotten this kind of treatment. Ire should be removed of his admin or at least be relegated to divisions where invite players will never have to interact with him since he can't seem to separate his personal feelings from his admin duties.
115
#115
-24 Frags +

Shoutout to RGL considering going into spec for 20 seconds the same thing as installing LMAOBOX onto your computer so my team leader wasn’t allowed to play scrims/matches for a month and a week.

Shoutout to RGL considering going into spec for 20 seconds the same thing as installing LMAOBOX onto your computer so my team leader wasn’t allowed to play scrims/matches for a month and a week.
116
#116
14 Frags +
illyaShoutout to RGL considering going into spec for 20 seconds the same thing as installing LMAOBOX onto your computer so my team leader wasn’t allowed to play scrims/matches for a month and a week.

If he got lost on his own keyboard trying to find the button to change teams, after fumbling and accidentally pressing it while waiting to respawn, then it's really no great loss.
He's clearly not meant for multitasking. With playing the game not distracting him anymore he can now focus on leading the team.

And if he didn't get lost...

[quote=illya]Shoutout to RGL considering going into spec for 20 seconds the same thing as installing LMAOBOX onto your computer so my team leader wasn’t allowed to play scrims/matches for a month and a week.[/quote]
If he got lost on his own keyboard trying to find the button to change teams, after fumbling and accidentally pressing it while waiting to respawn, then it's really no great loss.
He's clearly not meant for multitasking. With playing the game not distracting him anymore he can now focus on leading the team.

And if he didn't get lost...
117
#117
7 Frags +

this keeps happening and sigafoo's gonna have to sigafoo save his own league

this keeps happening and sigafoo's gonna have to sigafoo save his own league
118
#118
-12 Frags +

Can we all just like... stop playing RGL? Like i know ugc is bad. We get it, but RGL is turning into a major shitshow and it makes me go from laughing to being angry to actually scared of the future of NA tf2. This isnt a joke in trying to discuss either. Im terrified that people are going to continue playing things they dont like and make things more tyranical than ever. Ire is shit as to what ive seen, sigafoo is not fixing what should be fixed, and people are either pedos and cheaters and rgl is like “yep, he gud” or people are legit professional people trying to make themselves known in tf2 and rgl is like “nah, fuck off, banned for 2 years”. Im actually scared man!

Can we all just like... stop playing RGL? Like i know ugc is bad. We get it, but RGL is turning into a major shitshow and it makes me go from laughing to being angry to actually scared of the future of NA tf2. This isnt a joke in trying to discuss either. Im terrified that people are going to continue playing things they dont like and make things more tyranical than ever. Ire is shit as to what ive seen, sigafoo is not fixing what should be fixed, and people are either pedos and cheaters and rgl is like “yep, he gud” or people are legit professional people trying to make themselves known in tf2 and rgl is like “nah, fuck off, banned for 2 years”. Im actually scared man!
119
#119
RGL.gg
19 Frags +

After the major penalty was issued by the Invite division admin, this was appealed. As a result, the RGL team had more 6v6 division admins review the STV demo of the match. Here are our findings:

  • While half of the additional admins reviewing the case found evidence of intentionally throwing, we could not conclusively determine that it was not caused by extreme tilt and roster issues.
  • The other half of the admins that reviewed the demo concluded that throwing did not occur and that their actions can be justified through their playstyle, tilt, and overall roster situation.
  • Due to conflict of interest from being rostered on Invite team GlobalClan Ice, I was not able to directly rule on the situation.

Due to the context of tilt playing a significant factor in the match, we have decided to revert the penalty.

It is worth mentioning that in a more sensitive context (playoffs seeding, playoffs, or qualifiers), the tolerance for thrown matches would be lower and this match would likely have been actionable.

Furthermore, it must be reiterated that the teams would have been fine to reschedule the match due to roster issues, as Ford’s medic leaving at the last minute is a valid reason to reschedule a casted match. It is also clear that a major case like this should not be reviewed by a single division admin. Having more eyes review the case at hand and making sure a head admin greenlights the decision (admins that have a potential conflict of interest are void of this) are steps that should have been done from the beginning with this case.

Quite frankly, we're just as tired of these things happening as you are. While these are largely innocent mistakes rather than malicious actions as so many of you jump to, and we correct mistakes we make as quickly as possible while allowing time for due process, this frequency of mistakes is completely unacceptable. We need to make some serious changes, we know that, and we’ve set in motion a plan to do so, which is outlined here. This article discusses staff changes, admin procedures, and training we are working on fixing, and our plan to improve relations and build trust with the community.

After the major penalty was issued by the Invite division admin, this was appealed. As a result, the RGL team had more 6v6 division admins review the STV demo of the match. Here are our findings:

[list]
[*] While half of the additional admins reviewing the case found evidence of intentionally throwing, we could not conclusively determine that it was not caused by extreme tilt and roster issues.
[*] The other half of the admins that reviewed the demo concluded that throwing did not occur and that their actions can be justified through their playstyle, tilt, and overall roster situation.
[*] Due to conflict of interest from being rostered on Invite team GlobalClan Ice, I was not able to directly rule on the situation.
[/list]

[b]Due to the context of tilt playing a significant factor in the match, we have decided to revert the penalty.[/b]

It is worth mentioning that in a more sensitive context (playoffs seeding, playoffs, or qualifiers), the tolerance for thrown matches would be lower and this match would likely have been actionable.

Furthermore, it must be reiterated that the teams would have been fine to reschedule the match due to roster issues, as Ford’s medic leaving at the last minute is a valid reason to reschedule a casted match. It is also clear that a major case like this should not be reviewed by a single division admin. Having more eyes review the case at hand and making sure a head admin greenlights the decision (admins that have a potential conflict of interest are void of this) are steps that should have been done from the beginning with this case.

[b]Quite frankly, we're just as tired of these things happening as you are[/b]. While these are largely innocent mistakes rather than malicious actions as so many of you jump to, and we correct mistakes we make as quickly as possible while allowing time for due process, this frequency of mistakes is completely unacceptable. We need to make some serious changes, we know that, and we’ve set in motion a plan to do so, which is outlined [url=https://rgl.gg/?a=1565&r=40]here[/url]. This article discusses staff changes, admin procedures, and training we are working on fixing, and our plan to improve relations and build trust with the community.
120
#120
6 Frags +

tyty

tyty
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