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ban iron bomber and market gardener for s39
91
#91
Spaceship Servers
13 Frags +
CollaideDidn't someone make a plugin that made the iron bomber projectile hitbox the same as default? Or am I confusing it with something else?

yeah

https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/1009710/remove-iron-bomber-from-whitelist

(they also made a fix for the wrap assasin / bison / other projectiles breaking:

https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=2706629)

why not just go full promod when theres plugins that can fix most engine issues with the game lol

[quote=Collaide]Didn't someone make a plugin that made the iron bomber projectile hitbox the same as default? Or am I confusing it with something else?[/quote]

yeah

https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/1009710/remove-iron-bomber-from-whitelist

(they also made a fix for the wrap assasin / bison / other projectiles breaking:

https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=2706629)

why not just go full promod when theres plugins that can fix most engine issues with the game lol
92
#92
30 Frags +

Spy is countered by just using your eyes and ears. If the spy decloaks far enough away so he isn't heard or seen there's so many things that can go wrong for him whilst he's waddling about trying to catch up, getting bumped, one guy turning around etc.

Downside of sniper is that you're running a sniper, only place where that doesn't matter as much is holding your own last but its still bad because it means unless he hits a shot you just have a guy afk in spawn.

The only downside of Market Gardener is that because it's overpowered people tend to over use it and therefore unequip it to remove the temptation.

Iron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.

Spy is countered by just using your eyes and ears. If the spy decloaks far enough away so he isn't heard or seen there's so many things that can go wrong for him whilst he's waddling about trying to catch up, getting bumped, one guy turning around etc.

Downside of sniper is that you're running a sniper, only place where that doesn't matter as much is holding your own last but its still bad because it means unless he hits a shot you just have a guy afk in spawn.

The only downside of Market Gardener is that because it's overpowered people tend to over use it and therefore unequip it to remove the temptation.

Iron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.
93
#93
-37 Frags +
coyo_geezerIron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.

because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?

[quote=coyo_geezer]
Iron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.[/quote]

because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?
94
#94
37 Frags +
mustardoverlordbecause we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?

ur such an ugly noob

[quote=mustardoverlord]
because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?[/quote]

ur such an ugly noob
95
#95
31 Frags +
mustardoverlordcoyo_geezerIron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.
because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?

stop fucking posting and just play another season in IM or whatever just please stop

[quote=mustardoverlord][quote=coyo_geezer]
Iron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.[/quote]

because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?[/quote]
stop fucking posting and just play another season in IM or whatever just please stop
96
#96
19 Frags +
mustardoverlordcoyo_geezerIron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.
because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?

man you couldnt pick ur own fucking maps never mind banning your own fucking weapons

[quote=mustardoverlord][quote=coyo_geezer]
Iron Bomber is just a pretty blatant upgrade idk why you'd need to argue about it. It Is Literally Bigger Lol.[/quote]

because we don't ban weapons just for being upgrades on the continent whose website you're squatting in?[/quote]
man you couldnt pick ur own fucking maps never mind banning your own fucking weapons
97
#97
19 Frags +

burgers speaking

burgers speaking
98
#98
-13 Frags +
dipp_nubbiThe only thing i don't understand is if the spoon was this op and the best weapon in the game (cuz based on what people say in the thread thats what they think) then why are there 3 prem/invite players combined that use it?
Not everyone is skilled with the spoon, hence few people use it. However, the spoon does become OP with the few people who are good with it. It's about the user, not the weapon.
nubbiAlso to me it kinda looks like its only the salty medic mains crying who don't have good movement and haven't got very good awareness
In these clips, the medic was aware of the soldier and I don't think their movement was "bad".

https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/EnjoyableBadGiraffeSSSsss
https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/MoralTacitCougarJKanStyle-r97zAs0sWe73ZtA_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jsoJWL9x94&t=103s

A medic can juke/dodge/surf a soldier using rockets, while with the spoon, there's practically nothing anyone can do about it except pop or drop.
chiefdogI could be wrong but isn't mg really easy to counter with good awareness, good movement and a scout? Should we not reward skilled weapons and outplay potential? Isn't it a good thing if a good enough soldier can break a stalemate with a set off good jumps and a well timed spoon?
In stalemates, I think both teams should have almost equal chances of winning. The issue arises when the attacking team has a market gardener soldier. They have time to prepare and get a good jump in (for example, soapymesiter's clip), while the defending team will not have such a great opportunity if they counter sac (with the spoon) since the enemy is more prepared and expecting and also playing passive positions. Haven't you noticed how the market gardener almost always excels when you are attacking with point advantage? It does not favor both sides equally when breaking stalemates with the spoon.

The market gardener can achieve more than any launcher for less skill/aim. The few people who can use it terrorize other teams, and it is really hard to counter. That is why it is overpowered, ban the spoon.

These are poor choices and if you watch all these clips it shows,
1. LOLGUY is just spamming a and d instead of being in a position is viable for him to not be forced and actually see the soldier coming. This isn't mg being op because a sniper could easily peak him from cafe like this as there is no one denying the choke and it's a free headshot similarly to the mg kill.
2. Plaidium had a decent position but his scout/demo/lack off class?? failed to kill a soldier who is in by himself with no support just as soapy had to hit the bhop as well for this to work. This again isn't the weapon being op, defending team had more than enough time to kill him but their setup was shit and their scout equally as so and the bhop mechanic is just a good display of skill.
3. You honestly believe this was good movement? Guys holding s in a straight line. Of course he is going to get a kill on the medic like this but again Jay if he's using rockets here can easily just land on his head and get a simple two rocket. Similarly again, there just isn't a scout/enough classes around the medic.

If I played against a soldier (gink) who put time and effort into beggars bazooka and made the game his bitch, I wouldn't complain it's overpowered, I'd be thinking on how to adapt to what is going on. The good spoon players do exactly this by practising and practising in order to develop good timing/situations where the spoon can be viable. The same goes for paintrain, it's only viable in certain situations.
Does nubbi hit every spoon he goes for? No, because he adapts to what happens, sometimes he will go for one but a large majority miss.

Your argument over equal chances of winning is incorrect, there is plenty of times to do a counter sac, push out when the attacking team sends in a sac as well, if you're a team that's on the ball, you can do it before the attackers even attempt their own play e.g using uber ad, pyro sniper push out, syncing with a spy play, coordinated aggression on a lobby area, list goes on mate. Again, the second clip has no defensive offclasses so they played into Soapy's hands.

The spoon isn't op, it's just lack of thoughts/gamesense of what is going to happen and who you are playing against. It can be countered very easily and this one of the things I tell people who want mentoring, adapt to who you play, pay attention to what they do and use it against them.

Simiarly, what mustard linked previously about I said about the iron bomber still stands, the weapon isn't overpowered, it's a viable way for demo to stay relevant in this current game and not all demos can still put up the numbers/impact required even with this weapon. If all demos where able to drop 10k every game and make everyone's life a misery, then I'd agree but the fact is, I can play against all the prem demos and see mediocre numbers/impact with this "overpowered" weapon and outcome would have fuck all change if they were using stock pipes/loose cannon.

[quote=dipp_][quote=nubbi]The only thing i don't understand is if the spoon was this op and the best weapon in the game (cuz based on what people say in the thread thats what they think) then why are there 3 prem/invite players combined that use it? [/quote]

Not everyone is skilled with the spoon, hence few people use it. However, the spoon does become OP with the few people who are good with it. It's about the user, not the weapon.

[quote=nubbi]Also to me it kinda looks like its only the salty medic mains crying who don't have good movement and haven't got very good awareness[/quote]

In these clips, the medic was aware of the soldier and I don't think their movement was "bad".

https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/EnjoyableBadGiraffeSSSsss
https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/MoralTacitCougarJKanStyle-r97zAs0sWe73ZtA_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jsoJWL9x94&t=103s

A medic can juke/dodge/surf a soldier using rockets, while with the spoon, there's practically nothing anyone can do about it except pop or drop.

[quote=chiefdog]I could be wrong but isn't mg really easy to counter with good awareness, good movement and a scout? Should we not reward skilled weapons and outplay potential? Isn't it a good thing if a good enough soldier can break a stalemate with a set off good jumps and a well timed spoon?
[/quote]

In stalemates, I think both teams should have almost equal chances of winning. The issue arises when the attacking team has a market gardener soldier. They have time to prepare and get a good jump in (for example, soapymesiter's clip), while the defending team will not have such a great opportunity if they counter sac (with the spoon) since the enemy is more prepared and expecting and also playing passive positions. Haven't you noticed how the market gardener almost always excels when you are attacking with point advantage? It does not favor both sides equally when breaking stalemates with the spoon.

The market gardener can achieve more than any launcher for less skill/aim. The few people who can use it terrorize other teams, and it is really hard to counter. That is why it is overpowered, ban the spoon.[/quote]

These are poor choices and if you watch all these clips it shows,
1. LOLGUY is just spamming a and d instead of being in a position is viable for him to not be forced and actually see the soldier coming. This isn't mg being op because a sniper could easily peak him from cafe like this as there is no one denying the choke and it's a free headshot similarly to the mg kill.
2. Plaidium had a decent position but his scout/demo/lack off class?? failed to kill a soldier who is in by himself with no support just as soapy had to hit the bhop as well for this to work. This again isn't the weapon being op, defending team had more than enough time to kill him but their setup was shit and their scout equally as so and the bhop mechanic is just a good display of skill.
3. You honestly believe this was good movement? Guys holding s in a straight line. Of course he is going to get a kill on the medic like this but again Jay if he's using rockets here can easily just land on his head and get a simple two rocket. Similarly again, there just isn't a scout/enough classes around the medic.

If I played against a soldier (gink) who put time and effort into beggars bazooka and made the game his bitch, I wouldn't complain it's overpowered, I'd be thinking on how to adapt to what is going on. The good spoon players do exactly this by practising and practising in order to develop good timing/situations where the spoon can be viable. The same goes for paintrain, it's only viable in certain situations.
Does nubbi hit every spoon he goes for? No, because he adapts to what happens, sometimes he will go for one but a large majority miss.

Your argument over equal chances of winning is incorrect, there is plenty of times to do a counter sac, push out when the attacking team sends in a sac as well, if you're a team that's on the ball, you can do it before the attackers even attempt their own play e.g using uber ad, pyro sniper push out, syncing with a spy play, coordinated aggression on a lobby area, list goes on mate. Again, the second clip has no defensive offclasses so they played into Soapy's hands.

The spoon isn't op, it's just lack of thoughts/gamesense of what is going to happen and who you are playing against. It can be countered very easily and this one of the things I tell people who want mentoring, adapt to who you play, pay attention to what they do and use it against them.

Simiarly, what mustard linked previously about I said about the iron bomber still stands, the weapon isn't overpowered, it's a viable way for demo to stay relevant in this current game and not all demos can still put up the numbers/impact required even with this weapon. If all demos where able to drop 10k every game and make everyone's life a misery, then I'd agree but the fact is, I can play against all the prem demos and see mediocre numbers/impact with this "overpowered" weapon and outcome would have fuck all change if they were using stock pipes/loose cannon.
99
#99
17 Frags +

mfers really saying mg is op... fuck around and find out. the new roamer meta will be market gardener + MANTREADs. You cannot stop him. He has almost surf-level air control. Almost no knockback. He's coming for you.

mfers really saying mg is op... fuck around and find out. the new roamer meta will be market gardener + MANTREADs. You cannot stop him. He has almost surf-level air control. Almost no knockback. He's coming for you.
100
#100
24 Frags +
Irish_JoshSimiarly, what mustard linked previously about I said about the iron bomber still stands, the weapon isn't overpowered, it's a viable way for demo to stay relevant in this current game and not all demos can still put up the numbers/impact required even with this weapon. If all demos where able to drop 10k every game and make everyone's life a misery, then I'd agree but the fact is, I can play against all the prem demos and see mediocre numbers/impact with this "overpowered" weapon and outcome would have fuck all change if they were using stock pipes/loose cannon.

Yeah, every demo..who faces me..shits out their insides the moment they smell...my intense alpha musk...so that to relive themselves of the pain and...the embarrassment..they kill-bind the moment they play..against me. I pity the fool..who dares to challenge...me. Let the demo have their...pathetic IB...so they can maybe, have a chance and I can finally...have a challenge.

[quote=Irish_Josh]Simiarly, what mustard linked previously about I said about the iron bomber still stands, the weapon isn't overpowered, it's a viable way for demo to stay relevant in this current game and not all demos can still put up the numbers/impact required even with this weapon. If all demos where able to drop 10k every game and make everyone's life a misery, then I'd agree but the fact is, I can play against all the prem demos and see mediocre numbers/impact with this "overpowered" weapon and outcome would have fuck all change if they were using stock pipes/loose cannon.[/quote]

Yeah, every demo..who faces me..shits out their insides the moment they smell...my intense alpha musk...so that to relive themselves of the pain and...the embarrassment..they kill-bind the moment they play..against me. I pity the fool..who dares to challenge...me. Let the demo have their...pathetic IB...so they can maybe, have a chance and I can finally...have a challenge.
101
#101
13 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFpPxQZOYT0&ab_channel=Lupus

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFpPxQZOYT0&ab_channel=Lupus[/youtube]
102
#102
13 Frags +
Irish_Joshmassive text

either this is genius bait or you didn't read the thread because you completely managed to avoid the point of the weapon being not fun to play against

[quote=Irish_Josh]massive text[/quote]
either this is genius bait or you didn't read the thread because you completely managed to avoid the point of the weapon being not fun to play against
103
#103
16 Frags +

yea man,,,, elacour and lukas are easy to play against. grow up.

yea man,,,, elacour and lukas are easy to play against. grow up.
104
#104
1 Frags +
dipp_In these clips, the medic was aware of the soldier and I don't think their movement was "bad".

https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/EnjoyableBadGiraffeSSSsss
https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/MoralTacitCougarJKanStyle-r97zAs0sWe73ZtA_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jsoJWL9x94&t=103s

A medic can juke/dodge/surf a soldier using rockets, while with the spoon, there's practically nothing anyone can do about it except pop or drop.

All I'm seeing are scout misplays.
First one the scout could easily bodyblock but pussies out and uses his doublejump to get out of the way at the last second because his life is more important than the medic's.
Second one the scout pasta brains away from the medic because "I must kill" and surprise, when the soldier just jumps over him he needs way too long to get back and kill the soldier. Is it dumb that a soldier who shot all his rockets can kill a medic in that time? Yes. Could that scout have prevented it? Also yes. Hell, even the demo could've hit that pipe earlier. Both clearly qualify as "anyone".
Third one the scout is far enough away from the medic that the soldier has enough time to fire at least two rockets after spooning the medic. Walking backwards in a straight line also might not have been the best choice when he saw the meme spoon coming.

90% of all counterplay to bombs comes from the team. If they ignore the roamer then the medic will die/be forced unless he starts pulling some pro MGE moves. Surfs can't save you forever.
The team can also prevent meme spoon bombs just fine. Yes, it's a annoying that the roamer can do with 1 rocket for a jump what he'd usually need at least 2 for, but on the other hand he needs to get into melee range so it's not that bad.
However what little counterplay options the medic has short of stopping the heals and pulling out the crossbow, which would get him yelled at, pretty much disappear, so it's not fun at all for medics.

tl;dr pocket scout needs to get his shit together if a soldier can get into melee range of the medic*

*Yes, there's a risk vs reward tradeoff if you want to play aggressively. Who would've thought?

[quote=dipp_]
In these clips, the medic was aware of the soldier and I don't think their movement was "bad".

https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/EnjoyableBadGiraffeSSSsss
https://www.twitch.tv/rglgg/clip/MoralTacitCougarJKanStyle-r97zAs0sWe73ZtA_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jsoJWL9x94&t=103s

A medic can juke/dodge/surf a soldier using rockets, while with the spoon, there's practically nothing anyone can do about it except pop or drop.[/quote]
All I'm seeing are scout misplays.
First one the scout could easily bodyblock but pussies out and uses his doublejump to get out of the way at the last second because his life is more important than the medic's.
Second one the scout pasta brains away from the medic because "I must kill" and surprise, when the soldier just jumps over him he needs way too long to get back and kill the soldier. Is it dumb that a soldier who shot all his rockets can kill a medic in that time? Yes. Could that scout have prevented it? Also yes. Hell, even the demo could've hit that pipe earlier. Both clearly qualify as "anyone".
Third one the scout is far enough away from the medic that the soldier has enough time to fire at least two rockets [i]after[/i] spooning the medic. Walking backwards in a straight line also might not have been the best choice when he saw the meme spoon coming.


90% of all counterplay to bombs comes from the team. If they ignore the roamer then the medic will die/be forced unless he starts pulling some pro MGE moves. Surfs can't save you forever.
The team can also prevent meme spoon bombs just fine. Yes, it's a annoying that the roamer can do with 1 rocket for a jump what he'd usually need at least 2 for, but on the other hand he needs to get into melee range so it's not that bad.
However what little counterplay options the medic has short of stopping the heals and pulling out the crossbow, which would get him yelled at, pretty much disappear, so it's not fun at all for medics.

tl;dr pocket scout needs to get his shit together if a soldier can get into melee range of the medic*

*Yes, there's a risk vs reward tradeoff if you want to play aggressively. Who would've thought?
105
#105
-4 Frags +

Give medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....

Give medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....
106
#106
14 Frags +
VirtualSodaGive medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....

id be pissed if my med used this shit instead of the bow any med that would do that is a pussy

[quote=VirtualSoda]Give medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....[/quote]

id be pissed if my med used this shit instead of the bow any med that would do that is a pussy
107
#107
6 Frags +
funhaver1998VirtualSodaGive medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....
id be pissed if my med used this shit instead of the bow any med that would do that is a pussy

Okay what about it replacing the medi-gun :)

[quote=funhaver1998][quote=VirtualSoda]Give medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....[/quote]

id be pissed if my med used this shit instead of the bow any med that would do that is a pussy[/quote]

Okay what about it replacing the medi-gun :)
108
#108
16 Frags +
Irish_Josh

1.LOLGUY was standing in the normal position for medic to stand in? Not sure where else you're implying he stand other than inside the point which is a death trap for medics. Sniper would be known about and would have to hit a split second headshot to drop him - which I think everyone would consider fair as it's a guaranteed death for the sniper if he were to peak like that.They would also literally have a sniper who is limited in his gameplay until he dies, not sure why people keep bringing this comparison up, it's the reason you can run mg full time and not run sniper full time?
2. Lack of any offclass or structured last hold is 100% the problem here. Soapy however has 0 rockets as he jumps and would have gotten one rocket off before he died maybe 2, at best case a force. The bhop is also just an RNG bug, skill does affect it sure but it's not consistent in the slightest and the medic has to guess.
3. Same again for this scenario, Jay has 0 rockets as he jumps, where is he going to get these 2 rockets you speak of? Skeez could have dodged better you're right, but other than just hope Jay misses his swing, little he could have done. There isn't much in this game that allows you to 1 shot an enemy, and they all come with heavy tradeoffs and risk (apart from this one), idk man seems like we won't ever agree this is bad game design. At least with rockets there's a slight chance the medic can outplay the soldier.

edit: I didn't mention sticky traps because I know that will be a comparison. And yes I also think that is stupid game design for a game like ours.

[quote=Irish_Josh][/quote]
1.LOLGUY was standing in the normal position for medic to stand in? Not sure where else you're implying he stand other than inside the point which is a death trap for medics. Sniper would be known about and would have to hit a split second headshot to drop him - which I think everyone would consider fair as it's a guaranteed death for the sniper if he were to peak like that.They would also literally have a sniper who is limited in his gameplay until he dies, not sure why people keep bringing this comparison up, it's the reason you can run mg full time and not run sniper full time?
2. Lack of any offclass or structured last hold is 100% the problem here. Soapy however has 0 rockets as he jumps and would have gotten one rocket off before he died maybe 2, at best case a force. The bhop is also just an RNG bug, skill does affect it sure but it's not consistent in the slightest and the medic has to guess.
3. Same again for this scenario, Jay has 0 rockets as he jumps, where is he going to get these 2 rockets you speak of? Skeez could have dodged better you're right, but other than just hope Jay misses his swing, little he could have done. There isn't much in this game that allows you to 1 shot an enemy, and they all come with heavy tradeoffs and risk (apart from this one), idk man seems like we won't ever agree this is bad game design. At least with rockets there's a slight chance the medic can outplay the soldier.

edit: I didn't mention sticky traps because I know that will be a comparison. And yes I also think that is stupid game design for a game like ours.
109
#109
-27 Frags +
pyropenguinIrish_Joshmassive texteither this is genius bait or you didn't read the thread because you completely managed to avoid the point of the weapon being not fun to play against

There's a lot of stuff un-fun to play against, that is not the point that should be made here. I don't complain against something that I consider un-fun, I prioritise adapting to it.

Makyea man,,,, elacour and lukas are easy to play against. grow up.

Be quiet you dense mong, I only want the opinion of good demos.

DomoCatFaceIrish_Josh1.LOLGUY was standing in the normal position for medic to stand in? Not sure where else you're implying he stand other than inside the point which is a death trap for medics. Sniper would be known about and would have to hit a split second headshot to drop him - which I think everyone would consider fair as it's a guaranteed death for the sniper if he were to peak like that.They would also literally have a sniper who is limited in his gameplay until he dies, not sure why people keep bringing this comparison up, it's the reason you can run mg full time and not run sniper full time?
2. Lack of any offclass or structured last hold is 100% the problem here. Soapy however has 0 rockets as he jumps and would have gotten one rocket off before he died maybe 2, at best case a force. The bhop is also just an RNG bug, skill does affect it sure but it's not consistent in the slightest and the medic has to guess.
3. Same again for this scenario, Jay has 0 rockets as he jumps, where is he going to get these 2 rockets you speak of? Skeez could have dodged better you're right, but other than just hope Jay misses his swing, little he could have done. There isn't much in this game that allows you to 1 shot an enemy, and they all come with heavy tradeoffs and risk (apart from this one), idk man seems like we won't ever agree this is bad game design. At least with rockets there's a slight chance the medic can outplay the soldier.

edit: I didn't mention sticky traps because I know that will be a comparison. And yes I also think that is stupid game design for a game like ours.

1. It honestly looks like he's actually running forward to buff a soldier the second jay jumps so again that's a mistake on his part but the lack of denial at the choke allows jay a free bomb in the first place. He is effectively in the same position as his scout here as well so it's gifting a free bomb for Jay. Sniper wouldn't be known about if he hides on mid and runs down the left side as no one is finding any forward information on the setup but that's not the case here, I'm just showcasing what could happen based on the same scenario.
2. So in what way is it the market gardener being op then? This a team fault through and through because if the attacking demo syncs spam with soapy in this situation if he goes for the rocket over the mg, he can easily be dropped the same with sync spam.
3. My bad, I didn't see the 0 rocket part however with the position skeez is in, all Jay has to do is take time to reload two rockets which evidently in this clip he has more than enough time to do. The lack of risk is due to his team not playing around him but this game as a whole wasn't very focused around habib/skeez, I am unaware if you watched the vod of it but it felt very flank heavy and these two were left out as bait in a sense.

[quote=pyropenguin][quote=Irish_Josh]massive text[/quote]
either this is genius bait or you didn't read the thread because you completely managed to avoid the point of the weapon being not fun to play against[/quote]

There's a lot of stuff un-fun to play against, that is not the point that should be made here. I don't complain against something that I consider un-fun, I prioritise adapting to it.

[quote=Mak]yea man,,,, elacour and lukas are easy to play against. grow up.[/quote]

Be quiet you dense mong, I only want the opinion of good demos.

[quote=DomoCatFace][quote=Irish_Josh][/quote]
1.LOLGUY was standing in the normal position for medic to stand in? Not sure where else you're implying he stand other than inside the point which is a death trap for medics. Sniper would be known about and would have to hit a split second headshot to drop him - which I think everyone would consider fair as it's a guaranteed death for the sniper if he were to peak like that.They would also literally have a sniper who is limited in his gameplay until he dies, not sure why people keep bringing this comparison up, it's the reason you can run mg full time and not run sniper full time?
2. Lack of any offclass or structured last hold is 100% the problem here. Soapy however has 0 rockets as he jumps and would have gotten one rocket off before he died maybe 2, at best case a force. The bhop is also just an RNG bug, skill does affect it sure but it's not consistent in the slightest and the medic has to guess.
3. Same again for this scenario, Jay has 0 rockets as he jumps, where is he going to get these 2 rockets you speak of? Skeez could have dodged better you're right, but other than just hope Jay misses his swing, little he could have done. There isn't much in this game that allows you to 1 shot an enemy, and they all come with heavy tradeoffs and risk (apart from this one), idk man seems like we won't ever agree this is bad game design. At least with rockets there's a slight chance the medic can outplay the soldier.

edit: I didn't mention sticky traps because I know that will be a comparison. And yes I also think that is stupid game design for a game like ours.[/quote]

1. It honestly looks like he's actually running forward to buff a soldier the second jay jumps so again that's a mistake on his part but the lack of denial at the choke allows jay a free bomb in the first place. He is effectively in the same position as his scout here as well so it's gifting a free bomb for Jay. Sniper wouldn't be known about if he hides on mid and runs down the left side as no one is finding any forward information on the setup but that's not the case here, I'm just showcasing what could happen based on the same scenario.
2. So in what way is it the market gardener being op then? This a team fault through and through because if the attacking demo syncs spam with soapy in this situation if he goes for the rocket over the mg, he can easily be dropped the same with sync spam.
3. My bad, I didn't see the 0 rocket part however with the position skeez is in, all Jay has to do is take time to reload two rockets which evidently in this clip he has more than enough time to do. The lack of risk is due to his team not playing around him but this game as a whole wasn't very focused around habib/skeez, I am unaware if you watched the vod of it but it felt very flank heavy and these two were left out as bait in a sense.
110
#110
19 Frags +
Irish_Josh

Wait how do you deny a soldier bombing from choke, am I missing something, do I really have to argue if Jay can be denied from even getting in the air from that position - sunshine 2nd is notorious for soldiers just flying in from mid, you can't stop it from happening. Even if he was going to heal that soldier, it's still not poor positioning to be just infront of the point for a couple seconds. That sniper scenario is 1/1000 where people aren't able to hold the cafe door and just let a sniper waltz in, you can surely make a better argument.

I'm saying he wouldn't have gotten the kill without it, regardless of the main fault of the initial hold or other factors. Don't get me started on that rng bhop bullshit lmfao.

No I haven't seen the vod I was just taking what I saw from the video. I don't think Jay gets a med pick there in all honesty if he stops to reload another rocket or 2, I don't think it's evident he can. It's certainly not going to be as easy.

I think that's the last I will say on the topic, feel free to respond or disagree. I've had my serious say.

[quote=Irish_Josh][/quote]
Wait how do you deny a soldier bombing from choke, am I missing something, do I really have to argue if Jay can be denied from even getting in the air from that position - sunshine 2nd is notorious for soldiers just flying in from mid, you can't stop it from [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/SpicyStylishOcelotOneHand-xBBEiHPGCALKCfZ4]happening[/url]. Even if he was going to heal that soldier, it's still not poor positioning to be just infront of the point for a couple seconds. That sniper scenario is 1/1000 where people aren't able to hold the cafe door and just let a sniper waltz in, you can surely make a better argument.

I'm saying he wouldn't have gotten the kill without it, regardless of the main fault of the initial hold or other factors. Don't get me started on that rng bhop bullshit lmfao.

No I haven't seen the vod I was just taking what I saw from the video. I don't think Jay gets a med pick there in all honesty if he stops to reload another rocket or 2, I don't think it's evident he can. It's certainly not going to be as easy.

I think that's the last I will say on the topic, feel free to respond or disagree. I've had my serious say.
111
#111
-7 Frags +
VirtualSodaGive medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....

just have a FAN pocket scout who can aim

[quote=VirtualSoda]Give medic a crossbow replacement that literally repells the enemy when hit. Or a market gardener razorback thing. Valve add this please. THIS is how we solve this issue....[/quote]
just have a FAN pocket scout who can aim
112
#112
-8 Frags +

All ways i can think of to one shot a medic with ETF2L 6v6 whitelist:
This is if the medic does not use the Vita-Saw.

Things that can one shot with mini crits:
Direct hit any range
Bushwacka
Force-A-Nature
Normal Rockets in melee range
Dragos Fury
Ullapool Caber
A single sticky.
Sniper bodyshot (Hitmans Heatmaker, The Classic and The huntsman can all one shot a medic with minicrits)

Things that can give you mini crits:
Fan O'War
Buff Banner

Things that can be used to gain normal crits
Market Gardner
Demoknight
Killing Gloves of Boxing
Frontier Justice
Kritzkrieg
Sniper headshots
Backstabs

Things that can one shot a medic without crits or mini crits:
Mantreads (Because pyro only has 175 hp Thermal Thruster can't get enough speed on tr_walkway to one shot a medic)
Multiple Stickies
Sniper bodyshots for the stock sniper rifle and the Bazaar Bargain
Tauntkills

All ways i can think of to one shot a medic with ETF2L 6v6 whitelist:
This is if the medic does not use the Vita-Saw.

Things that can one shot with mini crits:
Direct hit any range
Bushwacka
Force-A-Nature
Normal Rockets in melee range
Dragos Fury
Ullapool Caber
A single sticky.
Sniper bodyshot (Hitmans Heatmaker, The Classic and The huntsman can all one shot a medic with minicrits)

Things that can give you mini crits:
Fan O'War
Buff Banner

Things that can be used to gain normal crits
Market Gardner
Demoknight
Killing Gloves of Boxing
Frontier Justice
Kritzkrieg
Sniper headshots
Backstabs

Things that can one shot a medic without crits or mini crits:
Mantreads (Because pyro only has 175 hp Thermal Thruster can't get enough speed on tr_walkway to one shot a medic)
Multiple Stickies
Sniper bodyshots for the stock sniper rifle and the Bazaar Bargain
Tauntkills
113
#113
20 Frags +

The iron bomber has literally been broken for years, I don't understand why it shouldn't be banned or fixed.

The iron bomber has literally been broken for years, I don't understand why it shouldn't be banned or fixed.
114
#114
-6 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/BKhqVxq.png

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BKhqVxq.png[/img]
115
#115
-11 Frags +

these threads are never gonna get anywhere everyone has slightly diffrent views just gotta hope for the random ass valbe update where they change some random aspect of either wep and then just play with that for next 10 years

really anything on this website just dissolves into pure shit as we all kno

these threads are never gonna get anywhere everyone has slightly diffrent views just gotta hope for the random ass valbe update where they change some random aspect of either wep and then just play with that for next 10 years

really anything on this website just dissolves into pure shit as we all kno
116
#116
15 Frags +

https://etf2l.org/2021/06/24/season-39-whitelist-and-map-pool-update/

ETF2LWHITELIST
The only change to the whitelist will be the removal of the Quickie Bomb Launcher.
https://etf2l.org/2021/06/24/season-39-whitelist-and-map-pool-update/

[quote=ETF2L]WHITELIST
The only change to the whitelist will be the removal of the Quickie Bomb Launcher.[/quote]
117
#117
0 Frags +
ETF2LWHITELIST
The only change to the whitelist will be the removal of the Quickie Bomb Launcher.

That's such an arbitrary ban. Who even uses this weapon besides rare situations?

[quote=ETF2L]WHITELIST
The only change to the whitelist will be the removal of the Quickie Bomb Launcher.[/quote]

That's such an arbitrary ban. Who even uses this weapon besides rare situations?
118
#118
Twitch Prime
21 Frags +
MiG-21bisETF2LWHITELIST
The only change to the whitelist will be the removal of the Quickie Bomb Launcher.

That's such an arbitrary ban. Who even uses this weapon besides rare situations?

https://i.imgur.com/hyIJ110.png

[quote=MiG-21bis][quote=ETF2L]WHITELIST
The only change to the whitelist will be the removal of the Quickie Bomb Launcher.[/quote]

That's such an arbitrary ban. Who even uses this weapon besides rare situations?[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/hyIJ110.png[/img]
119
#119
1 Frags +

we don't claim him

we don't claim him
120
#120
Fireside Casts
-2 Frags +

battle's backup is perfect mg coutner..........plus 330buff.......

battle's backup is perfect mg coutner..........plus 330buff.......
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