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Unveiling NACL
1
#1
0 Frags +

After much deliberation, the "New Beginnings" team is proud to announce that we are forming NACL - the North American Competitive League.

League Season 1

We are launching a full community-run league as a replacement for ESEA, and it is our hope that it is one that the community can unite behind to sustain the NA competitive scene for years to come.

The results of the survey conducted by botmode, as well as our own thoughts, have led us to tentatively decide on the following as the structure for our league, though details are subject to change based on community feedback as well as our own continuing deliberations.

NOTE: The information in this post reflects the original proposals made for the league; the most up-to-date information can be found on the NACL Season 1 page and the NACL rules page.

Timeline

The league will start with a few weeks break after the end of ESEA Season 31 playoffs, which are currently scheduled to conclude July 22.

  • August 11th - end of signups
  • August 14th - provisional divisions posted
  • August 16th - divisions finalized
  • August 17th - initial matchups determined
  • August 18th - regular season starts
  • September 28th - rosters lock
  • October 12th - regular season ends
  • October 16th - postseason begins
  • November 9th - postseason ends

Divisions

We plan to have four primary divisions:

  • Invite - ESEA-I
  • Advanced - top half of ESEA-IM
  • Intermediate - bottom half of ESEA-IM + top half of ESEA-O
  • Novice - bottom half of ESEA-O

In addition, if there is enough interest from teams composed of new players, we will have a fifth Fundamental division, which will have some minor changes from the rest of the league to help players learn more about playing competitively.

Teams will be placed based on previous performance in ESEA, and based on signups, we will adjust the divisions as appropriate.

Structure

In Invite, teams will play each other twice during the regular season, with each match played as a map determined by a veto process. The top four teams from the regular season will proceed to a double-elimination postseason to determine the season's champion (all matches best-of-three except for the best-of-five grand finals). Teams will be ranked by maps won, with ties broken by head-to-head results, followed by sum of map performance scores (derived from match scores and lengths).

In the other divisions, teams will play one opponent within their division per week during the regular season, with each match played on two maps set by a predetermined rotation. The top teams from each division will proceed to a single-elimination postseason to determine the division winner (all matches best-of-three). Teams will be ranked by maps won, with ties broken by sum of map performance scores (derived from match scores and lengths).

There are no default match times; teams must negotiate match times, play the match, and report results by a specified deadline each week.

Rosters

There is no limit to the number of players a team may have rostered. A team may only add one player per week, and a player only may switch teams once per week (but, after playing a match for a team as part of its roster, a player may not switch rosters to any other team for the remainder of the week). Team rosters are locked prior to the final weeks of the season, during which time players may only be added to a roster with admin approval.

Players added to a team roster less than six hours prior to a match may be denied by an opponent. A team may use up to one player not on its roster (merc) in a match with the approval of the opponent prior to the match starting; any additional unrostered players require admin approval prior to the match. Once a map begins, players may only be switched out due to connection problems or other urgent problems, and the replacements must be on the team's roster.

$$$

For Season 1, we will not be requiring players or teams to pay league fees to play.

The prize pool is to be determined based on sponsorships.

Format

NACL will use the global whitelist.

Standard Control Point (i.e. 5CP) maps will be played with one regulation period of 30 minutes, with the first team to reach five rounds winning the map. If 30 minutes elapse with no team scoring five rounds, the team with the most rounds wins. If both teams have scored the same number of rounds and a tie is not permitted, an untimed "sudden death" overtime period will be held, where the first team to score a round will win the map.

King of the Hill maps will be played as a best-of-five (i.e. first to three rounds).

Each team is permitted to take one tactical timeout of 3 minutes during each map. This timeout may only be taken between rounds in regulation. If an overtime period is required to decide a map, the overtime period will begin after a 5 minute delay following regulation (unless both teams agree to skip the delay).

Map Pool

The following seven maps will be played:

  • Badlands
  • Gullywash
  • Process
  • Product
  • Metalworks
  • Snakewater
  • Sunshine

LAN

There will be no LAN finals for Season 1, but based on the league's performance, we are open to having LAN finals held for future seasons.

Other Events

Based on interest, we plan to run smaller and shorter events during offseasons. However, we do realize that it is sometimes difficult for teams to play in such events, so we would like to gather your thoughts on what would make these types of events easier for your team to play in.

People

As stated previously, this is primarily being organized by the "New Beginnings" team, with the following people in senior roles:

  • twiikuu, Technology Director - responsible for NACL's technical operations, including the league website and other technology
  • erynn, Staff Director - responsible for NACL's staff, including league administrators
  • tsc, Competition Director - responsible for the overall design and execution of NACL's various competitions

We are looking to rapidly expand our staff to ensure that the league has the people it requires to be successful, including administrators, anticheat investigators, and so on; if you're interested in being a part of NACL, please reach out to us.

Conclusion

We're always taking feedback on how we can make this league better, so please be sure to let your opinions be known in this thread or by reaching out to us privately (you can PM me on Discord - tsc#0386). Thanks for your incredible support over the past few weeks, and we can't wait to hear your thoughts!

After much deliberation, the "New Beginnings" team is proud to announce that we are forming [b][url=https://nacl.gg]NACL[/url][/b] - the North American Competitive League.

[b]League Season 1[/b]

We are launching a full community-run league as a replacement for ESEA, and it is our hope that it is one that the community can unite behind to sustain the NA competitive scene for years to come.

The [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ojSThYcJ_GVYqsChGuf0t20et2N4V39x2nyzzk2EGNc/edit?usp=sharing]results of the survey conducted by botmode[/url], as well as our own thoughts, have led us to tentatively decide on the following as the structure for our league, though [i]details are subject to change[/i] based on community feedback as well as our own continuing deliberations.

[b]NOTE:[/b] The information in this post reflects the original proposals made for the league; the most up-to-date information can be found on the [url=https://nacl.gg/leagues/1]NACL Season 1 page[/url] and the [url=https://nacl.gg/rules]NACL rules page[/url].

[i]Timeline[/i]

The league will start with a few weeks break after the end of ESEA Season 31 playoffs, which are currently scheduled to conclude July 22.

[list]
[*]August 11th - end of signups
[*]August 14th - provisional divisions posted
[*]August 16th - divisions finalized
[*]August 17th - initial matchups determined
[*]August 18th - regular season starts
[*]September 28th - rosters lock
[*]October 12th - regular season ends
[*]October 16th - postseason begins
[*]November 9th - postseason ends
[/list]

[i]Divisions[/i]

We plan to have four primary divisions:

[list]
[*]Invite - ESEA-I
[*]Advanced - top half of ESEA-IM
[*]Intermediate - bottom half of ESEA-IM + top half of ESEA-O
[*]Novice - bottom half of ESEA-O
[/list]

In addition, if there is enough interest from teams composed of new players, we will have a fifth Fundamental division, which will have some minor changes from the rest of the league to help players learn more about playing competitively.

Teams will be placed based on previous performance in ESEA, and based on signups, we will adjust the divisions as appropriate.

[i]Structure[/i]

In Invite, teams will play each other twice during the regular season, with each match played as a map determined by a veto process. The top four teams from the regular season will proceed to a double-elimination postseason to determine the season's champion (all matches best-of-three except for the best-of-five grand finals). Teams will be ranked by maps won, with ties broken by head-to-head results, followed by sum of map performance scores (derived from match scores and lengths).

In the other divisions, teams will play one opponent within their division per week during the regular season, with each match played on two maps set by a predetermined rotation. The top teams from each division will proceed to a single-elimination postseason to determine the division winner (all matches best-of-three). Teams will be ranked by maps won, with ties broken by sum of map performance scores (derived from match scores and lengths).

There are no default match times; teams must negotiate match times, play the match, and report results by a specified deadline each week.

[i]Rosters[/i]

There is no limit to the number of players a team may have rostered. A team may only add one player per week, and a player only may switch teams once per week (but, after playing a match for a team as part of its roster, a player may not switch rosters to any other team for the remainder of the week). Team rosters are locked prior to the final weeks of the season, during which time players may only be added to a roster with admin approval.

Players added to a team roster less than six hours prior to a match may be denied by an opponent. A team may use up to one player not on its roster (merc) in a match with the approval of the opponent prior to the match starting; any additional unrostered players require admin approval prior to the match. Once a map begins, players may only be switched out due to connection problems or other urgent problems, and the replacements must be on the team's roster.

[i]$$$[/i]

For Season 1, we will not be requiring players or teams to pay league fees to play.

The prize pool is to be determined based on sponsorships.

[i]Format[/i]

NACL will use the global whitelist.

Standard Control Point (i.e. 5CP) maps will be played with one regulation period of 30 minutes, with the first team to reach five rounds winning the map. If 30 minutes elapse with no team scoring five rounds, the team with the most rounds wins. If both teams have scored the same number of rounds and a tie is not permitted, an untimed "sudden death" overtime period will be held, where the first team to score a round will win the map.

King of the Hill maps will be played as a best-of-five (i.e. first to three rounds).

Each team is permitted to take one tactical timeout of 3 minutes during each map. This timeout may only be taken between rounds in regulation. If an overtime period is required to decide a map, the overtime period will begin after a 5 minute delay following regulation (unless both teams agree to skip the delay).

[i]Map Pool[/i]

The following seven maps will be played:

[list]
[*]Badlands
[*]Gullywash
[*]Process
[*]Product
[*]Metalworks
[*]Snakewater
[*]Sunshine
[/list]

[i]LAN[/i]

There will be no LAN finals for Season 1, but based on the league's performance, we are open to having LAN finals held for future seasons.

[b]Other Events[/b]

Based on interest, we plan to run smaller and shorter events during offseasons. However, we do realize that it is sometimes difficult for teams to play in such events, so we would like to gather your thoughts on what would make these types of events easier for your team to play in.

[b]People[/b]

As stated previously, this is primarily being organized by the "New Beginnings" team, with the following people in senior roles:

[list]
[*]twiikuu, Technology Director - responsible for NACL's technical operations, including the league website and other technology
[*]erynn, Staff Director - responsible for NACL's staff, including league administrators
[*]tsc, Competition Director - responsible for the overall design and execution of NACL's various competitions
[/list]

We are looking to rapidly expand our staff to ensure that the league has the people it requires to be successful, including administrators, anticheat investigators, and so on; if you're interested in being a part of NACL, please [url=https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN7gkdreHZHfNChu_1bk0TXimqXYd20y3MeTsEoOmD8SWz9A/viewform]reach out to us[/url].

[b]Conclusion[/b]

We're always taking feedback on how we can make this league better, so please be sure to let your opinions be known in this thread or by reaching out to us privately (you can PM me on Discord - tsc#0386). Thanks for your incredible support over the past few weeks, and we can't wait to hear your thoughts!
2
#2
39 Frags +
tscStandard Control Point (i.e. 5CP) maps will be played with one regulation period of 30 minutes, with the first team to reach five rounds winning the map. If 30 minutes elapse with no team scoring five rounds, the team with the most rounds wins. If both teams have scored the same number of rounds and a tie is not permitted, an untimed "sudden death" overtime period will be held, where the first team to score a round will win the map.

King of the Hill maps will be played as a best-of-five (i.e. first to three rounds).

this format is bad makes matches too short make it 2 maps like etf2l or 2 halves, its also a less popular response from players than the 2 other formats i listed on botmodes poll u referenced

tscA team may only add one player per week, and a player only may switch teams once per week (but, after playing a match for a team as part of its roster, a player may not switch rosters to any other team for the remainder of the week).

only adding one player per week is too restrictive and will make teams die

[quote=tsc]Standard Control Point (i.e. 5CP) maps will be played with one regulation period of 30 minutes, with the first team to reach five rounds winning the map. If 30 minutes elapse with no team scoring five rounds, the team with the most rounds wins. If both teams have scored the same number of rounds and a tie is not permitted, an untimed "sudden death" overtime period will be held, where the first team to score a round will win the map.

King of the Hill maps will be played as a best-of-five (i.e. first to three rounds).[/quote]

this format is bad makes matches too short make it 2 maps like etf2l or 2 halves, its also a less popular response from players than the 2 other formats i listed on botmodes poll u referenced

[quote=tsc]A team may only add one player per week, and a player only may switch teams once per week (but, after playing a match for a team as part of its roster, a player may not switch rosters to any other team for the remainder of the week).[/quote]

only adding one player per week is too restrictive and will make teams die
3
#3
13 Frags +

fitting name

fitting name
4
#4
-37 Frags +

hey guys check out my new league at https://cevo.com/

hey guys check out my new league at https://cevo.com/
5
#5
3 Frags +

https://youtu.be/kbBgx0BEuuI

https://youtu.be/kbBgx0BEuuI
6
#6
48 Frags +

Bad idea at this point cause u were too late. RGL starts in like 3 weeks and most people are satisfied with the changes they made to the league. and at best u will split the playerbase and kill NA

Bad idea at this point cause u were too late. RGL starts in like 3 weeks and most people are satisfied with the changes they made to the league. and at best u will split the playerbase and kill NA
7
#7
11 Frags +

phantom is right, it would have been great to have had a concept that this was occurring a couple weeks back just so the community could decide which league had a better ruleset that would be able to support the NA scene overall

phantom is right, it would have been great to have had a concept that this was occurring a couple weeks back just so the community could decide which league had a better ruleset that would be able to support the NA scene overall
8
#8
10 Frags +

I was very excited for this league when the idea first came around. I had no intent to play any other league and hoped it would turn out just like ETF2L.
I'm disappointed to see it come so late. My friends and I have already committed to playing RGL because it's just that late. When we made our team for the next season we decided to wait a bit before committing to RGL or TFCL just to see if NATF2L would come around. It didn't come around in time...
RGL has had time to modify some of their stuff to better appeal to players and fix some dumb mistakes in their planning. You guys are announcing your league a very few weeks before RGL starts, it obviously has some fixing to do first (just like RGL did) and most people have already committed to RGL. NACL still looks appealing, but RGL looked appealing first.
It's sad to see. Honestly you're just a bit too late. I was hyped for this, and I'm sorry to say it's probably just not possible.

I was very excited for this league when the idea first came around. I had no intent to play any other league and hoped it would turn out just like ETF2L.
I'm disappointed to see it come so late. My friends and I have already committed to playing RGL because it's just that late. When we made our team for the next season we decided to wait a bit before committing to RGL or TFCL just to see if NATF2L would come around. It didn't come around in time...
RGL has had time to modify some of their stuff to better appeal to players and fix some dumb mistakes in their planning. You guys are announcing your league a very few weeks before RGL starts, it obviously has some fixing to do first (just like RGL did) and most people have already committed to RGL. NACL still looks appealing, but RGL looked appealing first.
It's sad to see. Honestly you're just a bit too late. I was hyped for this, and I'm sorry to say it's probably just not possible.
9
#9
15 Frags +

agree it's late but the league is free. just sign your existing rgl team up and play both...

agree it's late but the league is free. just sign your existing rgl team up and play both...
10
#10
3 Frags +

keep badlands but remove gran? why tho

keep badlands but remove gran? why tho
11
#11
5 Frags +

too late

too late
12
#12
2 Frags +

match times? days?

match times? days?
13
#13
48 Frags +
PhantomBad idea at this point cause u were too late. RGL starts in like 3 weeks and most people are satisfied with the changes they made to the league. and at best u will split the playerbase and kill NA

Not gonna lie, the fact that RGL starts so early is absolutely abysmal planning on their part. No idea how invite teams are going to actually get their rosters figured out as it's right after grand finals and there won't even be time to try people out. But given the fact that they actually did choose to start it when they did it's a pretty shitty situation. Having no confirmed prize pool also makes me skeptical. As much as I am inclined to think that tsc/erynn/twiiku are much more qualified to run a project like this I think it might just be too little to late.

[quote=Phantom]Bad idea at this point cause u were too late. RGL starts in like 3 weeks and most people are satisfied with the changes they made to the league. and at best u will split the playerbase and kill NA[/quote]
Not gonna lie, the fact that RGL starts so early is absolutely abysmal planning on their part. No idea how invite teams are going to actually get their rosters figured out as it's right after grand finals and there won't even be time to try people out. But given the fact that they actually did choose to start it when they did it's a pretty shitty situation. Having no confirmed prize pool also makes me skeptical. As much as I am inclined to think that tsc/erynn/twiiku are much more qualified to run a project like this I think it might just be too little to late.
14
#14
20 Frags +

and yall wondered why rgl was starting so early

and yall wondered why rgl was starting so early
15
#15
17 Frags +

Sodium, atomic number 11, was first isolated by Humphry Davy in 1807. A chemical component of salt, he named it Na in honor of the saltiest region on earth, North America.

Sodium, atomic number 11, was first isolated by Humphry Davy in 1807. A chemical component of salt, he named it Na in honor of the saltiest region on earth, North America.
16
#16
39 Frags +
MikeMatand yall wondered why rgl was starting so early

honestly i wouldnt be surprised if it was actually intentional by sigafoo so that this exact situation would come up, they were the first by far to announce so in order to cement their lead they chose to start as soon as possible to pressure people into signing up (total scumbag move imo they should move it back at least a few weeks but they probably won't)

[quote=MikeMat]and yall wondered why rgl was starting so early[/quote]
honestly i wouldnt be surprised if it was actually intentional by sigafoo so that this exact situation would come up, they were the first by far to announce so in order to cement their lead they chose to start as soon as possible to pressure people into signing up (total scumbag move imo they should move it back at least a few weeks but they probably won't)
17
#17
7 Frags +

You're too late. The initiative is long gone and RGL has run away with it. At this point your only contribution will be a negative one which will hurt the integrity of the scene. Call this off. If RGL tanks hard and everyone's pissed then you will have an opportunity to step in and offer your (almost same) alternative next season.

Show Content
JaguarFiend"Another, which was resoundingly rejected, was to unify all leagues behind a front-runner as to avoid fracturing the player pool."

I'm a bit disappointed to read that though I understand many of the good reasons for doing it like this. Nevertheless I think that fracturing the player pool is a very real possibility and the main thing that I don't want to see next fall is 3-5 different leagues all going live at the same time. We should not wait to see who joins what leagues and use that as a gauge of popularity and to see which league to get behind. By the time you let it get that far there could be substantial damage done which could lead to a shortening of the lifespan of our beloved game.

https://www.teamfortress.tv/52251/leagues-meet-to-discuss-future-of-north-american-tf2/?page=3#67
You're too late. The initiative is long gone and RGL has run away with it. At this point your only contribution will be a negative one which will hurt the integrity of the scene. Call this off. If RGL tanks hard and everyone's pissed then you will have an opportunity to step in and offer your (almost same) alternative next season.

[spoiler]
[quote=JaguarFiend]"Another, which was resoundingly rejected, was to unify all leagues behind a front-runner as to avoid fracturing the player pool."

I'm a bit disappointed to read that though I understand many of the good reasons for doing it like this. Nevertheless I think that fracturing the player pool is a very real possibility and the main thing that I don't want to see next fall is 3-5 different leagues all going live at the same time. We should not wait to see who joins what leagues and use that as a gauge of popularity and to see which league to get behind. By the time you let it get that far there could be substantial damage done which could lead to a shortening of the lifespan of our beloved game.

https://www.teamfortress.tv/52251/leagues-meet-to-discuss-future-of-north-american-tf2/?page=3#67
[/spoiler]
18
#18
31 Frags +

So I am only going to make one post more on this whole new league matter as I have said more then enough already. This notion that it is "too late" is a little stupid IMO. RGL has yet to actually start and there is plenty of time for people to change to a different league. No one is locked into only playing RGL at this point and things can still change in the community. Realistically if people want to play for cash then RGL is the best option because there is stupid money being dumped into it for no real reason, and if cash is the number one factor then RGL is the obvious choice. But it is still a choice, I am not faulting anyone for that choice I am saying people need to figure out what they want. If it's RGL, then go RGL, if it's NaCl, or any other league then go there, but don't make the decision that it MUST be RGL because of some arbitrary time limits that dont make any sense. People know where I stand on these issues, but for the rest of you there is still a lot of time to actually have these discussions and reach a conclusion you want, rather than one you are forced into.

So I am only going to make one post more on this whole new league matter as I have said more then enough already. This notion that it is "too late" is a little stupid IMO. RGL has yet to actually start and there is plenty of time for people to change to a different league. No one is locked into only playing RGL at this point and things can still change in the community. Realistically if people want to play for cash then RGL is the best option because there is stupid money being dumped into it for no real reason, and if cash is the number one factor then RGL is the obvious choice. But it is still a choice, I am not faulting anyone for that choice I am saying people need to figure out what they want. If it's RGL, then go RGL, if it's NaCl, or any other league then go there, but don't make the decision that it MUST be RGL because of some arbitrary time limits that dont make any sense. People know where I stand on these issues, but for the rest of you there is still a lot of time to actually have these discussions and reach a conclusion you want, rather than one you are forced into.
19
#19
24 Frags +
Tino_So I am only going to make one post more on this whole new league matter as I have said more then enough already. This notion that it is "too late" is a little stupid IMO. RGL has yet to actually start and there is plenty of time for people to change to a different league. No one is locked into only playing RGL at this point and things can still change in the community. Realistically if people want to play for cash then RGL is the best option because there is stupid money being dumped into it for no real reason, and if cash is the number one factor then RGL is the obvious choice. But it is still a choice, I am not faulting anyone for that choice I am saying people need to figure out what they want. If it's RGL, then go RGL, if it's NaCl, or any other league then go there, but don't make the decision that it MUST be RGL because of some arbitrary time limits that dont make any sense. People know where is stand on these issues, but for the rest of you there is still a lot of time to actually have these discussions and reach a conclusion you want, rather than one you are forced into.

if anything I would say the timing for this league is a lot better than RGL

I agree with trip if doing 30 minute ruleset ban to 2 maps and play 2 maps
do 2 roster swaps/week (maybe 3 even) with a max over the whole season

[quote=Tino_]So I am only going to make one post more on this whole new league matter as I have said more then enough already. This notion that it is "too late" is a little stupid IMO. RGL has yet to actually start and there is plenty of time for people to change to a different league. No one is locked into only playing RGL at this point and things can still change in the community. Realistically if people want to play for cash then RGL is the best option because there is stupid money being dumped into it for no real reason, and if cash is the number one factor then RGL is the obvious choice. But it is still a choice, I am not faulting anyone for that choice I am saying people need to figure out what they want. If it's RGL, then go RGL, if it's NaCl, or any other league then go there, but don't make the decision that it MUST be RGL because of some arbitrary time limits that dont make any sense. People know where is stand on these issues, but for the rest of you there is still a lot of time to actually have these discussions and reach a conclusion you want, rather than one you are forced into.[/quote]
if anything I would say the timing for this league is a lot better than RGL

I agree with trip if doing 30 minute ruleset ban to 2 maps and play 2 maps
do 2 roster swaps/week (maybe 3 even) with a max over the whole season
20
#20
8 Frags +

why wouldnt you people just schedule your matches to be different days and play both the leagues you will still scrim the same amount but more matches sounds like a win win for any tf2 neet that just plays 6s and nothing else

why wouldnt you people just schedule your matches to be different days and play both the leagues you will still scrim the same amount but more matches sounds like a win win for any tf2 neet that just plays 6s and nothing else
21
#21
49 Frags +

looks like you're a week or two late guys, the next 10 years have already been decided

looks like you're a week or two late guys, the next 10 years have already been decided
22
#22
11 Frags +

not late, thought out and will rise to become better than all others*

not late, thought out and will rise to become better than all others*
23
#23
40 Frags +
bearodactylNot gonna lie, the fact that RGL starts so early is absolutely abysmal planning on their part. No idea how invite teams are going to actually get their rosters figured out as it's right after grand finals and there won't even be time to try people out.

This is a really important point; multiple playoff Open/IM/Invite teams are gonna get fucked when they have 0 time to do tryouts for people shuffling in and out of teams. I understand a short off season is a side effect of not wanting a fall season to run through the winter holidays, but how does anyone honestly expect a 1 day off season to work when for years ESEA has usually given us more and we still pray for a fucking extension.

Regardless of which league ends up being "better", RGL is flat out not going to be an option for a lot of teams, even if they wanted it to be. The creation of this league is by no means "too late" in my eyes.

[quote=bearodactyl]Not gonna lie, the fact that RGL starts so early is absolutely abysmal planning on their part. No idea how invite teams are going to actually get their rosters figured out as it's right after grand finals and there won't even be time to try people out.[/quote]

This is a really important point; multiple playoff Open/IM/Invite teams are gonna get fucked when they have 0 time to do tryouts for people shuffling in and out of teams. I understand a short off season is a side effect of not wanting a fall season to run through the winter holidays, but how does anyone honestly expect a 1 day off season to work when for years ESEA has usually given us more and we [i]still[/i] pray for a fucking extension.

Regardless of which league ends up being "better", RGL is flat out not going to be an option for a lot of teams, even if they wanted it to be. The creation of this league is by no means "too late" in my eyes.
24
#24
-6 Frags +

im literaly shaking snd sweating rn omg

im literaly shaking snd sweating rn omg
25
#25
6 Frags +

https://www.strawpoll.me/18252172

Perhaps we can maybe get a rough idea on where people stand?

https://www.strawpoll.me/18252172

Perhaps we can maybe get a rough idea on where people stand?
26
#26
9 Frags +

Let the best league win.

Hopefully, the staff, service, and satisfaction between each of the leagues will be compared and be a ultimate decider on which will succeed ESEA. It'll be interesting to see which players pick what league and for what reason.

Let the best league win.

Hopefully, the staff, service, and satisfaction between each of the leagues will be compared and be a ultimate decider on which will succeed ESEA. It'll be interesting to see which players pick what league and for what reason.
27
#27
-20 Frags +

The point isn't that the time is close to RGL's starting which I also agree is too early but this league is too late because RGL has established itself very early as a sufficient option and it's way too risky to entertain NACL. What Tino talks about with "If you want x then play RGL and if you want y then play NACL" is the exact opposite of what is healthy for the scene. The whole thing we're trying to avoid here is a relatively even split of one half of NA liking one league and the other half liking the other because that is how we make it so neither league has a good amount of teams and the playerbase goes to shit. Furthermore I don't really see what NACL is going to offer that makes it worth playing over RGL. The only thing that's even close is that it's free but there's no significant prize money (sponsors for a dead game xd) so not only will the invite scene be incentivized to play RGL (and really where invite goes is what should be chosen,) but it's also not even like RGL is expensive. $20 for Main or $15 for IM which is about where the median skill level is at for one season is not only fair but also much better than what ESEA has been giving us. Everything else like map pool, whitelist, half time / no half time is insignificant. Are we really going to risk ruining na tf2 because we hate sigafoo and want to play this out of spite? Only way this should be a thing is if like half the teams for RGL can't get their rosters ready in time for the deadline and this is the back up plan. Nobody should be choosing to play here.

The point isn't that the time is close to RGL's starting which I also agree is too early but this league is too late because RGL has established itself very early as a sufficient option and it's way too risky to entertain NACL. What Tino talks about with "If you want x then play RGL and if you want y then play NACL" is [u]the exact opposite of what is healthy for the scene[/u]. The whole thing we're trying to avoid here is a relatively even split of one half of NA liking one league and the other half liking the other because that is how we make it so neither league has a good amount of teams and the playerbase goes to shit. Furthermore I don't really see what NACL is going to offer that makes it worth playing over RGL. The only thing that's even close is that it's free but there's no significant prize money (sponsors for a dead game xd) so not only will the invite scene be incentivized to play RGL (and really where invite goes is what should be chosen,) but it's also not even like RGL is expensive. $20 for Main or $15 for IM which is about where the median skill level is at for one season is not only fair but also much better than what ESEA has been giving us. Everything else like map pool, whitelist, half time / no half time is insignificant. Are we really going to risk ruining na tf2 because we hate sigafoo and want to play this out of spite? Only way this should be a thing is if like half the teams for RGL can't get their rosters ready in time for the deadline and this is the back up plan. Nobody should be choosing to play here.
28
#28
5 Frags +

They're all trying to get signups to see which league is better. Give it time and most of the community will find the right league is best. Offers from NACL and beyond are just telling us what can be done.
Whichever Invite picks should be the one all of us go to, but until then we can't say for certain RGL or NACL will be the true definite NATF2 competitive league.

Furthermore, all the leagues have come up with great ideas, great websites, and maybe okay timing. With the continuation of TF2 Competitive in these leagues, there's nothing more than just finding the right area to which we can put on cruise control and surf as if it was ESEA.
I believe all leagues are a starting point, no matter how late they are and no matter how bad they seem.

They're all trying to get signups to see which league is better. Give it time and most of the community will find the right league is best. Offers from NACL and beyond are just telling us what can be done.
Whichever Invite picks should be the one all of us go to, but until then we can't say for certain RGL or NACL will be the true definite NATF2 competitive league.

Furthermore, all the leagues have come up with great ideas, great websites, and maybe okay timing. With the continuation of TF2 Competitive in these leagues, there's nothing more than just finding the right area to which we can put on cruise control and surf as if it was ESEA.
I believe all leagues are a starting point, no matter how late they are and no matter how bad they seem.
29
#29
-7 Frags +

Tbh I feel that all these different leagues will be the death of TF2, not the death of ESEA. The worst thing we can do right now is fracture the community between two leagues, hopefully people are gonna realize that the state of this game rests solely on bringing in new players. With multiple options like UGC, RGL, and now NACL this could potentially put up more barriers to new players than bring them in.

I could be very wrong (probably am) but I don't see multiple leagues functioning as separate entities as a good thing, its gonna lead to siphoning from eachother and eventually kill off one, or both leagues.

Also, how would to invite divisions work? How could NA have one official champion with two leagues? Just doesn't seem right.

Tbh I feel that all these different leagues will be the death of TF2, not the death of ESEA. The worst thing we can do right now is fracture the community between two leagues, hopefully people are gonna realize that the state of this game rests solely on bringing in new players. With multiple options like UGC, RGL, and now NACL this could potentially put up more barriers to new players than bring them in.

I could be very wrong (probably am) but I don't see multiple leagues functioning as separate entities as a good thing, its gonna lead to siphoning from eachother and eventually kill off one, or both leagues.

Also, how would to invite divisions work? How could NA have one official champion with two leagues? Just doesn't seem right.
30
#30
17 Frags +

The community has sustained multiple leagues at a time on several occasions. This is nothing unusual. The period of time we've had over the last couple years here alone has sustained multiple leagues with RGL, UGC, existing alongside ESEA - not to mention other projects that pop up periodically.

The player base even supported CEVO and ESEA in addition to UGC/HL existing alongside one another for at least 2 seasons, and likely could have continued to do so if it weren't for CEVO's rule problems.

The community has sustained multiple leagues at a time on several occasions. This is nothing unusual. The period of time we've had over the last couple years here alone has sustained multiple leagues with RGL, UGC, existing alongside ESEA - not to mention other projects that pop up periodically.

The player base even supported CEVO and ESEA in addition to UGC/HL existing alongside one another for at least 2 seasons, and likely could have continued to do so if it weren't for CEVO's rule problems.
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