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1 2 3
ETF2L Allow potential cheater to play in Playoffs
31
#31
28 Frags +

Jokes on u kids, kaidus runs the league

"Admin conspiracy lmao we didn't even play last season"
It's the perfect alibi

Wake up sheeple

Jokes on u kids, kaidus runs the league

"Admin conspiracy lmao we didn't even play last season"
It's the perfect alibi

Wake up sheeple
32
#32
-7 Frags +

x

x
33
#33
28 Frags +

is it special treatment though? If i recall it correctly both sorex and josh of team lego got banned midseason aswell for the same offence (correct me if i am wrong)

is it special treatment though? If i recall it correctly both sorex and josh of team lego got banned midseason aswell for the same offence (correct me if i am wrong)
34
#34
-2 Frags +

x

x
35
#35
13 Frags +
Firei dont know all the cases where this happened, i just looked at the last couple of months in the etf2l ban log and ive seen almost all missing demo bans being handed out at the date of the ban posts.

why did you remove the part about unravs ban?

[quote=Fire]i dont know all the cases where this happened, i just looked at the last couple of months in the etf2l ban log and ive seen almost all missing demo bans being handed out at the date of the ban posts.[/quote]
why did you remove the part about unravs ban?
36
#36
0 Frags +

x

x
37
#37
53 Frags +

Protecting integrity of the league should be number 1 priority for any gaming league, not instantly banning someone for not following AC rules 3 times as per a well established and acknowledged league rule/punishment system is one way to ruin the integrity of the league.

I don't think for a second Thaigrr is a cheater but it's not a good precedent to set in such a high profile occasion. The argument to delay banning people to protect the competition is secondary to the integrity of the league, full stop and if you think this is a good idea you should resign as Head Admin because you're clearly not fit to run a league.

Protecting integrity of the league should be number 1 priority for any gaming league, not instantly banning someone for not following AC rules 3 times as per a well established and acknowledged league rule/punishment system is one way to ruin the integrity of the league.

I don't think for a second Thaigrr is a cheater but it's not a good precedent to set in such a high profile occasion. The argument to delay banning people to protect the competition is secondary to the integrity of the league, full stop and if you think this is a good idea you should resign as Head Admin because you're clearly not fit to run a league.
38
#38
-26 Frags +
MuukiAnother case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.

Team favouritism what can i do

[quote=Muuki]
Another case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
[/quote]

Team favouritism what can i do
39
#39
-23 Frags +

Although I agree with Muuki, why is the penalty for this crime so harsh? Why not just they can't play until the demos are uploaded? Too many innocent gamers have been incacerated for this petty crime and it has to stop.

Although I agree with Muuki, why is the penalty for this crime so harsh? Why not just they can't play until the demos are uploaded? Too many innocent gamers have been incacerated for this petty crime and it has to stop.
40
#40
15 Frags +
funhaver1998Although I agree with Muuki, why is the penalty for this crime so harsh? Why not just they can't play until the demos are uploaded? Too many innocent gamers have been incacerated for this petty crime and it has to stop.

If you don't think you should be harshly deterring potential cheaters to comply with AC rules then I don't want to play in any league you host.

It's not hard to record / upload demos, there is P-Rec or you can do them manually like I do every match. Is not really any excuse for an experienced player to miss 3 uploads and also I don't think Thaigrr is disputing it at all.

[quote=funhaver1998]Although I agree with Muuki, why is the penalty for this crime so harsh? Why not just they can't play until the demos are uploaded? Too many innocent gamers have been incacerated for this petty crime and it has to stop.[/quote]

If you don't think you should be harshly deterring potential cheaters to comply with AC rules then I don't want to play in any league you host.

It's not hard to record / upload demos, there is P-Rec or you can do them manually like I do every match. Is not really any excuse for an experienced player to miss 3 uploads and also I don't think Thaigrr is disputing it at all.
41
#41
-14 Frags +

I wouldn't want you im my league anyway Hildreth!

I wouldn't want you im my league anyway Hildreth!
42
#42
-6 Frags +

i agree with everything

i agree with everything
43
#43
14 Frags +

Was this like 3 times in a row across like 3+ weeks? or were they all from the same week?

If it's the prior, I say ban him.
If it's the latter, I say let him play and provide all remaining demos and if he misses one overturn the match and ban.

Was this like 3 times in a row across like 3+ weeks? or were they all from the same week?

If it's the prior, I say ban him.
If it's the latter, I say let him play and provide all remaining demos and if he misses one overturn the match and ban.
44
#44
6 Frags +
funhaver1998I wouldn't want you im my league anyway Hildreth!funhaver1998Although I agree with Muuki, why is the penalty for this crime so harsh? Why not just they can't play until the demos are uploaded? Too many innocent gamers have been incacerated for this petty crime and it has to stop.

Can't just have fun all the time my man

This is the real world and there's demos to be recorded

[quote=funhaver1998]I wouldn't want you im my league anyway Hildreth![/quote]
[quote=funhaver1998]Although I agree with Muuki, why is the penalty for this crime so harsh? Why not just they can't play until the demos are uploaded? Too many innocent gamers have been incacerated for this petty crime and it has to stop.[/quote]

Can't just have fun all the time my man

This is the real world and there's demos to be recorded
45
#45
24 Frags +

question, did thaigr ask for special treatment or did he just say 'i don't have the demos, do whatever you want to me'

question, did thaigr ask for special treatment or did he just say 'i don't have the demos, do whatever you want to me'
46
#46
6 Frags +
ComangliaWas this like 3 times in a row across like 3+ weeks? or were they all from the same week?

If it's the prior, I say ban him.
If it's the latter, I say let him play and provide all remaining demos and if he misses one overturn the match and ban.

prior
source: http://etf2l.org/2018/02/06/tuesday-night-bans/

[quote=Comanglia]Was this like 3 times in a row across like 3+ weeks? or were they all from the same week?

If it's the prior, I say ban him.
If it's the latter, I say let him play and provide all remaining demos and if he misses one overturn the match and ban.[/quote]

prior
source: http://etf2l.org/2018/02/06/tuesday-night-bans/
47
#47
37 Frags +

everyone post all the dirt you have on ETF2L

everyone post all the dirt you have on ETF2L
48
#48
13 Frags +
glassquestion, did thaigr ask for special treatment or did he just say 'i don't have the demos, do whatever you want to me'

Thaigrr posted on a recent match page 'see you in 2 months' so i assume he thought he was getting banned

[quote=glass]question, did thaigr ask for special treatment or did he just say 'i don't have the demos, do whatever you want to me'[/quote]

Thaigrr posted on a recent match page 'see you in 2 months' so i assume he thought he was getting banned
49
#49
18 Frags +
funhaver1998I wouldn't want you im my league anyway Hildreth!

Why not? By the sounds of it I'd be the only non-cheater in yours.

[quote=funhaver1998]I wouldn't want you im my league anyway Hildreth![/quote]

Why not? By the sounds of it I'd be the only non-cheater in yours.
50
#50
60 Frags +
CondawgMuukiAnother case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
Team favouritism what can i do

not cut ur soldiers mid season then take 4 weeks to replace them maybe

[quote=Condawg][quote=Muuki]
Another case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
[/quote]

Team favouritism what can i do[/quote]

not cut ur soldiers mid season then take 4 weeks to replace them maybe
51
#51
-7 Frags +

I'll be awaiting a public statement and apology from Crooked ETF2L Admins, until then I will go on Official strike (I will not play any Official Matches, and that's not because I didn't make it into Middie playoffs).

I'll be awaiting a public statement and apology from Crooked ETF2L Admins, until then I will go on Official strike (I will not play any Official Matches, and that's not because I didn't make it into Middie playoffs).
52
#52
ETF2L
58 Frags +

Hi. ETF2L AC Admin here since 2013. Just wanted to clear up some things.

Failed demo requests are absolute and we don't care what division people are in if they break them. Rules apply to everyone and I've banned prem players for it before just the same. This has always been a core mentality at ETF2L and in my opinion it's been maintained pretty well speaking from an AC standpoint. Thaigrr's situation is going exactly like any other users failed request is going. I can't even remember the last time we've banned someone days after their failed request.

We always put these users on the pending list, and they get included in the next banpost with the special exception to make sure that their ban actually affects them in a season. Rarely we've just done demo bans by themselves in a newspost but it's deifinitely uncommon. We don't want people getting 2 week bans off season where it ultimately wouldn't punish them at all so we try to make sure it actually matters but I don't want to sit there monitoring a player with a trigger finger and banning them before their grand final or something like that. I'm not entirely happy with how we're doing demo bans this way but this is how it's been done for every user to this point. The public ban post serve as a reminder for the playerbase to record and keep their demos when they see people getting banned for not doing so.

I'm not very sympathetic to Thaigrr. He's been banned 2 weeks already for his second failure to upload so you'd think he would be extra careful recording his matches after that. At the same time if we'd give in to public pressure and ban him immediately, it would in effect make him into an example and give him special (bad) treatment by doing so. This wouldn't happen with non high profile user.

My opinion is that we should definitely should discuss some potential changes at ETF2L to the banning process when it comes to demo requests. Perhaps it would be better to just ban every failed requests as soon as we can and then add them to the future ban post anyways. This way it would be the most fair to the affected users and the ban post would serve it's purpose.

Ah and for any non-eu people out there, we do a ton of random demo requests at ETF2L and they all have 4 users requested in each one. This way the majority of the players requested aren't even AC related. Wanted to kinda make that clear. The whole point of the punishment is to actually make sure people record and provide, and we always remove the ban immediately if the user provides after getting banned.

Hi. ETF2L AC Admin here since 2013. Just wanted to clear up some things.

Failed demo requests are absolute and we don't care what division people are in if they break them. Rules apply to everyone and I've banned prem players for it before just the same. This has always been a core mentality at ETF2L and in my opinion it's been maintained pretty well speaking from an AC standpoint. Thaigrr's situation is going exactly like any other users failed request is going. I can't even remember the last time we've banned someone [b]days[/b] after their failed request.

We always put these users on the pending list, and they get included in the next banpost with the special exception to make sure that their ban actually affects them in a season. Rarely we've just done demo bans by themselves in a newspost but it's deifinitely uncommon. We don't want people getting 2 week bans off season where it ultimately wouldn't punish them at all so we try to make sure it actually matters but I don't want to sit there monitoring a player with a trigger finger and banning them before their grand final or something like that. I'm not entirely happy with how we're doing demo bans this way but this is how it's been done for every user to this point. The public ban post serve as a reminder for the playerbase to record and keep their demos when they see people getting banned for not doing so.

I'm not very sympathetic to Thaigrr. He's been banned 2 weeks already for his second failure to upload so you'd think he would be extra careful recording his matches after that. At the same time if we'd give in to public pressure and ban him immediately, it would in effect make him into an example and give him special (bad) treatment by doing so. This wouldn't happen with non high profile user.

My opinion is that we should definitely should discuss some potential changes at ETF2L to the banning process when it comes to demo requests. Perhaps it would be better to just ban every failed requests as soon as we can and then add them to the future ban post anyways. This way it would be the most fair to the affected users and the ban post would serve it's purpose.

Ah and for any non-eu people out there, we do a ton of random demo requests at ETF2L and they all have 4 users requested in each one. This way the majority of the players requested aren't even AC related. Wanted to kinda make that clear. The whole point of the punishment is to actually make sure people record and provide, and we always remove the ban immediately if the user provides after getting banned.
53
#53
15 Frags +
lazybearpost.

IMO this is resolvable with the following changes:

* Punish people for demo review offenses right away.

* Change it so week punishments only go down from actual seasonal weeks, so if someone gets a demo review punish at the end of the season it will remain and then bleed over into the next season. This puts more pressure on taking demos during playoffs seriously which is good because those matches are even more important.

* Mention it in the next ban post regardless just to provide clarity.

[quote=lazybear]post.[/quote]

IMO this is resolvable with the following changes:

* Punish people for demo review offenses right away.

* Change it so week punishments only go down from actual seasonal weeks, so if someone gets a demo review punish at the end of the season it will remain and then bleed over into the next season. This puts more pressure on taking demos during playoffs seriously which is good because those matches are even more important.

* Mention it in the next ban post regardless just to provide clarity.
54
#54
23 Frags +

@lazybear thanks for being the only admin trying to give proper reasoning and responding in this thread. I got a couple of questions though:
Punishment in the form of minor/major warnings for the team fielding the player that failed to submit the demos are distributed immedeatly after the 'crime' aswell so why is the punishment for the player coming in delayed?

Do people just randomly get unlucky with the timing of banposts when they get banned mid season then?

@lazybear thanks for being the only admin trying to give proper reasoning and responding in this thread. I got a couple of questions though:
Punishment in the form of minor/major warnings for the team fielding the player that failed to submit the demos are distributed immedeatly after the 'crime' aswell so why is the punishment for the player coming in delayed?

Do people just randomly get unlucky with the timing of banposts when they get banned mid season then?
55
#55
ETF2L
24 Frags +
smzi@lazybear thanks for being the only admin trying to give proper reasoning and responding in this thread. I got a couple of questions though:
Punishment in the form of minor/major warnings for the team fielding the player that failed to submit the demos are distributed immedeatly after the 'crime' aswell so why is the punishment for the player coming in delayed?

We punish the team because if we didn't a team could just add cheaters who never upload and play every match without consequence. Matches are defaulted to the opposing team if people are caught cheating but if there is no material to review then we can't ban either. It needs to be immediate because the team leader(s) is the one getting the E-mail from the website about the demo request. It's his responsibility to notify his players about it. It's important to the league that keeping it clean is an effort where everyone is responsible, including teams. We can't delay these because they directly affect the actual matches and season the demo requests are for. I see your point in the sense that why should it be different for the team and the actual user though. It would definitely feel wrong to me to say punish a team a season later for an offense one of their players did the previous season.

smzi"Do people just randomly get unlucky with the timing of banposts when they get banned mid season then?

Honestly yes. That's what I don't like about the current system. Even if the ban wave is during a season one user could not be active that season, and another could be in the playoffs with his team. If we have 8 people getting demo banned at the same time then naturally they could be affected differently.

[quote=smzi]@lazybear thanks for being the only admin trying to give proper reasoning and responding in this thread. I got a couple of questions though:
Punishment in the form of minor/major warnings for the team fielding the player that failed to submit the demos are distributed immedeatly after the 'crime' aswell so why is the punishment for the player coming in delayed?[/quote]

We punish the team because if we didn't a team could just add cheaters who never upload and play every match without consequence. Matches are defaulted to the opposing team if people are caught cheating but if there is no material to review then we can't ban either. It needs to be immediate because the team leader(s) is the one getting the E-mail from the website about the demo request. It's his responsibility to notify his players about it. It's important to the league that keeping it clean is an effort where everyone is responsible, including teams. We can't delay these because they directly affect the actual matches and season the demo requests are for. I see your point in the sense that why should it be different for the team and the actual user though. It would definitely feel wrong to me to say punish a team a season later for an offense one of their players did the previous season.

[quote=smzi]"Do people just randomly get unlucky with the timing of banposts when they get banned mid season then?[/quote]

Honestly yes. That's what I don't like about the current system. Even if the ban wave is during a season one user could not be active that season, and another could be in the playoffs with his team. If we have 8 people getting demo banned at the same time then naturally they could be affected differently.
56
#56
7 Frags +
Alfieeveryone post all the dirt you have on ETF2L

Alle in low
note: admins didn't actually make him stop

[quote=Alfie]everyone post all the dirt you have on ETF2L[/quote]
Alle in low
note: admins didn't actually make him stop
57
#57
13 Frags +
CondawgMuukiAnother case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
Team favouritism what can i do

Give up your spot

[quote=Condawg][quote=Muuki]
Another case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
[/quote]

Team favouritism what can i do[/quote]

Give up your spot
58
#58
10 Frags +
wtzAlfieeveryone post all the dirt you have on ETF2LAlle in low
note: admins didn't actually make him stop

http://etf2l.org/matches/71821/

well after the third week they posted that he was only allowed to play medic for the rest of the season for that team, which is fair enough

[quote=wtz][quote=Alfie]everyone post all the dirt you have on ETF2L[/quote]
Alle in low
note: admins didn't actually make him stop[/quote]

http://etf2l.org/matches/71821/

well after the third week they posted that he was only allowed to play medic for the rest of the season for that team, which is fair enough
59
#59
-5 Frags +
SpriteCondawgMuukiAnother case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
Team favouritism what can i do

not cut ur soldiers mid season then take 4 weeks to replace them maybe

Shots well and truly fired.

[quote=Sprite][quote=Condawg][quote=Muuki]
Another case that makes this even more confusing is that the admins are willing to swap out the 4th placed team Nunya for the 5th placed team Omni5 in the playoffs without the 4th placed teams consent, even though they haven't even broken any rules (apart from running two heavies). Clearly they are ready to apply special cases to some teams, but not to others just because he happens to play on lord Bug's team. Double standards much? Won't go too much into this one though.
[/quote]

Team favouritism what can i do[/quote]

not cut ur soldiers mid season then take 4 weeks to replace them maybe[/quote]

Shots well and truly fired.
60
#60
28 Frags +

I blame Permzilla.

I blame Permzilla.
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