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unpopular tf2 opinions
1051
#1051
-15 Frags +
arcadiaAimIsADickThe point of talking about shit on the forum is that OTHER PEOPLE also want to engage with the content, that's why there's chess, Formula 1, etc. threads, because a lot of people who play competitive TF2 also share a common interest in those (and even they get downfragged often because many don't care). You are posting about stuff that nobody here cares about.
Bots, nav meshes are not involved in competitive, we don't care about MvM, we don't care about the build tools.

Oh. I guess that explains it.

[quote=arcadia][quote=AimIsADick][/quote]
The point of talking about shit on the forum is that OTHER PEOPLE also want to engage with the content, that's why there's chess, Formula 1, etc. threads, because a lot of people who play competitive TF2 also share a common interest in those (and even they get downfragged often because many don't care). You are posting about stuff that nobody here cares about.
Bots, nav meshes are not involved in competitive, we don't care about MvM, we don't care about the build tools.[/quote]
Oh. I guess that explains it.
1052
#1052
39 Frags +

Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game

Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game
1053
#1053
-16 Frags +

prolander should be the default in game competitive mode (or well, at least 7v7 one per class)
it's better then nr6s, you don't need 18 people for the queue to pop, you can change classes if you're eating shit, you can play the popular pub maps like upward (that are actually competitively viable, unlike dustbowl or something lol), and most importantly, players can play their actual mains

prolander should be the default in game competitive mode (or well, at least 7v7 one per class)
it's better then nr6s, you don't need 18 people for the queue to pop, you can change classes if you're eating shit, you can play the popular pub maps like upward (that are actually competitively viable, unlike dustbowl or something lol), and most importantly, players can play their actual mains
1054
#1054
11 Frags +
MofuClimbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game

news flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person

[quote=Mofu]Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game[/quote]
news flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person
1055
#1055
-21 Frags +
arcadianav meshes are not involved in competitive

Why so? I'm curious.

[quote=arcadia]nav meshes are not involved in competitive[/quote]

Why so? I'm curious.
1056
#1056
6 Frags +
AimIsADickarcadianav meshes are not involved in competitive
Why so? I'm curious.

There are a few training-specific bot maps that people use to practice (tr_walkway, tyler rocket shooting, and some others, idk that many), but otherwise native tf2 bots are simply unable to participate in competitive because they would be hilariously bad. For example, when someone leaves a faceit match, a bot will join and generally they start to do things like building a sentry on last while you're pushing their second.
If you're thinking about more complex, perhaps ML bots, then that's a different story, but they don't really exist yet.

[quote=AimIsADick][quote=arcadia]nav meshes are not involved in competitive[/quote]

Why so? I'm curious.[/quote]
There are a few training-specific bot maps that people use to practice (tr_walkway, tyler rocket shooting, and some others, idk that many), but otherwise native tf2 bots are simply unable to participate in competitive because they would be hilariously bad. For example, when someone leaves a faceit match, a bot will join and generally they start to do things like building a sentry on last while you're pushing their second.
If you're thinking about more complex, perhaps ML bots, then that's a different story, but they don't really exist yet.
1057
#1057
-27 Frags +

Here's a reminder that I have custom made nav meshes for community maps.

arcadiaThere are a few training-specific bot maps that people use to practice (tr_walkway, tyler rocket shooting, and some others, idk that many), but otherwise native tf2 bots are simply unable to participate in competitive because they would be hilariously bad. For example, when someone leaves a faceit match, a bot will join and generally they start to do things like building a sentry on last while you're pushing their second.

I don't necessarily agree that nav meshes should be banned if bots are bad, because bots could be improved in the future; it's not an impossible event. In the event that native bots are improved enough to be usable in competitive, it would suck to have bad or no nav meshes for a map, which already hurt the performance of native TF2 bots.

arcadiaIf you're thinking about more complex, perhaps ML bots, then that's a different story, but they don't really exist yet.

Doesn't stop them from being made. It would be difficult to account for the efficiency due to the overhead of modding engines, like MetaMod: Source and Sourcemod, but I wouldn't be surprised if I saw one. Machine learning could technically work, but it would take a lot of data, so it'd be a while before someone makes it.

However machine learning is not all that difficult; it just takes a lot of mathematics, training, and processing power.

A lot of improvements to bots can actually be made just by configuring the tf_bot* cvars, like I have done in my mastercomfig addon for bot support. Here's a list of tf_bot cvars!

If the TF2-specific NextBot code was refactored, bots could easily have skill levels comparable to players, like changing up Scout bots to be able to use double jumps, or make Sniper bots strafe while scoped aiming.

Definitely agree that the programming for bots should be reworked though; 'hiding in cover' should not just be standing around! I also agree that native TF2 bots are not ready for competitive, but it does not stop modded bots from potentially being included.

Here's a reminder that I have [url=https://www.teamfortress.tv/60566/i-have-a-list-of-nav-meshes-for-tf2-maps]custom made nav meshes for community maps[/url].
[quote=arcadia]There are a few training-specific bot maps that people use to practice (tr_walkway, tyler rocket shooting, and some others, idk that many), but otherwise native tf2 bots are simply unable to participate in competitive because they would be hilariously bad. For example, when someone leaves a faceit match, a bot will join and generally they start to do things like building a sentry on last while you're pushing their second.[/quote]
I don't necessarily agree that nav meshes should be [i]banned[/i] if bots are bad, because bots could be improved in the future; it's not an impossible event. In the event that native bots are improved enough to be usable in competitive, it would suck to have bad or no nav meshes for a map, which already hurt the performance of native TF2 bots.

[quote=arcadia]If you're thinking about more complex, perhaps ML bots, then that's a different story, but they don't really exist yet.[/quote]
Doesn't stop them from being made. It would be difficult to account for the efficiency due to the overhead of modding engines, like MetaMod: Source and Sourcemod, but I wouldn't be surprised if I saw one. Machine learning could technically work, but it would take a lot of data, so it'd be a while before someone makes it.

[b]However machine learning is not all that difficult[/b]; it just takes a lot of mathematics, training, and processing power.

A lot of improvements to bots can actually be made just by configuring the tf_bot* cvars, like [url=https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/WhyIsEvery4thYearAlwaysBad/mastercomfig-bot-support/-/tree/develop/config]I have done in my mastercomfig addon for bot support[/url]. [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TFBot_Technicalities#ConVars.2FConCommands]Here's a list of tf_bot cvars![/url]

If the TF2-specific NextBot code was refactored, bots could easily have skill levels comparable to players, like changing up Scout bots to be able to use double jumps, or make Sniper bots strafe while scoped aiming.

Definitely agree that the programming for bots should be reworked though; [b]'hiding in cover' should not just be standing around![/b] I also agree that native TF2 bots are not ready for competitive, but it does not stop modded bots from potentially being included.
1058
#1058
36 Frags +
jetzMofuClimbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the gamenews flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person

Then how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:

[quote=jetz][quote=Mofu]Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game[/quote]
news flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person[/quote]
Then how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:
1059
#1059
25 Frags +
MofuThen how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:

I'm guessing probably because you only really need to be friends with like 4 people in order to get on a team and once you play in the high divs its easier to develop a case of the ego.

Also I feel like a lot of players are insufferable in lower divs as well but im like the opposite of a high div player so I can't really compare lmao

[quote=Mofu]
Then how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:[/quote]

I'm guessing probably because you only really need to be friends with like 4 people in order to get on a team and once you play in the high divs its easier to develop a case of the ego.

Also I feel like a lot of players are insufferable in lower divs as well but im like the opposite of a high div player so I can't really compare lmao
1060
#1060
tf2pickup.org
-5 Frags +
MofujetzMofuClimbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the gamenews flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable personThen how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:

i think there are multiple reasons, not all of them have to apply to a certain individual:
- being tired of participating in low quality games in a personal opinion (sometimes people are just aware that their team sucks because they have big ego or it's a fact),
- being stuck in a toxic relationship with teammates because a hunger of winning sometimes is so big so it's way more important than a matter if someone actually feels good with people someone plays with, so people keep forcing themselves to spend time with people who they don't care about or they don't even like just for a purpose of winning because uhhhh yes pixel trophies and MEDALS are so important
- using tf2 as an escape from real life problems because you don't think about them when playing, so let's play it all the time and then run into a vicious circle where you people don't want to be sad because of their personal reasons but at the same time they don't want to deal with these problems, making it bigger and worse
edit: also some people do it for a fake banter while in fact they're really nice

[quote=Mofu][quote=jetz][quote=Mofu]Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game[/quote]
news flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person[/quote]
Then how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:[/quote]
i think there are multiple reasons, not all of them have to apply to a certain individual:
- being tired of participating in low quality games in a personal opinion (sometimes people are just aware that their team sucks because they have big ego or it's a fact),
- being stuck in a toxic relationship with teammates because a hunger of winning sometimes is so big so it's way more important than a matter if someone actually feels good with people someone plays with, so people keep forcing themselves to spend time with people who they don't care about or they don't even like just for a purpose of winning because uhhhh yes pixel trophies and MEDALS are so important
- using tf2 as an escape from real life problems because you don't think about them when playing, so let's play it all the time and then run into a vicious circle where you people don't want to be sad because of their personal reasons but at the same time they don't want to deal with these problems, making it bigger and worse
edit: also some people do it for a fake banter while in fact they're really nice
1061
#1061
-27 Frags +
MofuClimbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game

never seen a funnier div2 cope. maybe its true on the classes no1 gives a shit about in highlander (engy/pyro come to mind...) and potentially medic in 6s, but ur not gna get to da top thru sucking people's dicks. maybe into mid-table high/div1 but ye.

[quote=Mofu]Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game[/quote]

never seen a funnier div2 cope. maybe its true on the classes no1 gives a shit about in highlander (engy/pyro come to mind...) and potentially medic in 6s, but ur not gna get to da top thru sucking people's dicks. maybe into mid-table high/div1 but ye.
1062
#1062
10 Frags +
MofujetzMofuClimbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the gamenews flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable personThen how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:

i mean the insufferable ones are probably just good lol. i didnt say being in invite makes you likeable, i said being likeable makes it easier to get into invite.

Like theoretically think about player X and player Y. Both play invite. Player X is a terrible teammate, insufferable etc. but hes got great mechanics and calling so people play with him anyways. Player Y is pretty mediocre in that sense, but he has a really good attitude and people enjoy spending 5 nights a week with him, so they will pick him up over all the other mediocre players who are also annoying. I don't really believe in your imaginary player who is both insufferable and bad geting picked up every season, people would stop playing with them after one or two seasons.

[quote=Mofu][quote=jetz][quote=Mofu]Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game[/quote]
news flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person[/quote]
Then how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:[/quote]
i mean the insufferable ones are probably just good lol. i didnt say being in invite makes you likeable, i said being likeable makes it easier to get into invite.

Like theoretically think about player X and player Y. Both play invite. Player X is a terrible teammate, insufferable etc. but hes got great mechanics and calling so people play with him anyways. Player Y is pretty mediocre in that sense, but he has a really good attitude and people enjoy spending 5 nights a week with him, so they will pick him up over all the other mediocre players who are also annoying. I don't really believe in your imaginary player who is both insufferable and bad geting picked up every season, people would stop playing with them after one or two seasons.
1063
#1063
0 Frags +
jetzMofujetzMofuClimbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the gamenews flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable personThen how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:i mean the insufferable ones are probably just good lol. i didnt say being in invite makes you likeable, i said being likeable makes it easier to get into invite.

Like theoretically think about player X and player Y. Both play invite. Player X is a terrible teammate, insufferable etc. but hes got great mechanics and calling so people play with him anyways. Player Y is pretty mediocre in that sense, but he has a really good attitude and people enjoy spending 5 nights a week with him, so they will pick him up over all the other mediocre players who are also annoying. I don't really believe in your imaginary player who is both insufferable and bad geting picked up every season, people would stop playing with them after one or two seasons.

thats why i said "being friend with the *right people*". Most high div players are insufferable towards everyone but the right people, feels almost like what you'd see out of a work environment to me lol

[quote=jetz][quote=Mofu][quote=jetz][quote=Mofu]Climbing up the divs (especially in HL) is mostly about being friends with the right people and not being good at the game[/quote]
news flash: people are more likely to want to play with you if you are a likeable person[/quote]
Then how come so many high div players are insufferable af ? :thinking:[/quote]
i mean the insufferable ones are probably just good lol. i didnt say being in invite makes you likeable, i said being likeable makes it easier to get into invite.

Like theoretically think about player X and player Y. Both play invite. Player X is a terrible teammate, insufferable etc. but hes got great mechanics and calling so people play with him anyways. Player Y is pretty mediocre in that sense, but he has a really good attitude and people enjoy spending 5 nights a week with him, so they will pick him up over all the other mediocre players who are also annoying. I don't really believe in your imaginary player who is both insufferable and bad geting picked up every season, people would stop playing with them after one or two seasons.[/quote]

thats why i said "being friend with the *right people*". Most high div players are insufferable towards everyone but the right people, feels almost like what you'd see out of a work environment to me lol
1064
#1064
27 Frags +

tf2 would have completely died years ago if it never went free to play

tf2 would have completely died years ago if it never went free to play
1065
#1065
33 Frags +

invite illuminati exists

invite illuminati exists
1066
#1066
-21 Frags +

#1 Everyone except medics hate
#2 Medics hate
#3 Everyone hates
#4 Everyone hates
#5 Middies hate

1. People think they can play medic better than medic mains. They can't even if the player is a meme like Condawg. I have never seen a non-medic main outperform a medic main even if they "know" how to play medic better. For some unknown reason, they are still worse!!! Even if the medic player is a bad player too!

2. All medics suck from all points in time except Raymon, and Shade when playing with B4nny. Shade without B4nny is weak though.

To determine this I've probably watched more medic demos than anyone else alive from raymon, phorofor, ninjanick, shade, condawg, seeds (lotta seeds and condawg and phorofor), dave, cookiejake, permzilla, kos, mirelin, bulle, harbleu (not always on medic tho), turbo, honeybadger, bear, vani, virgil, lolguy, n*rsey and myself. Altogether about 250 demos of just OTHER medics (120-130 hours spent properly watching others, and another 10 just myself).

Raymon is the only "good" medic the game has ever seen. Shade was good but only with b4nny. The reason is because raymon knew what his whole team was thinking without them having to say and shade knew what only b4nny (and perhaps blaze and clockwork) were thinking without having to say. The problem is ofc that shade didnt know what the other members of his team were thinking whereas raymon did. Noone now a days is either smart enough or spends enough time talking to their team about what they want to do to actually get good in the same crucical way.

3. Kinda self fulfilling prophecy. Getting good at medic is an impossibility now because rosters keep swapping too often. Medics go to better teams, or they get cut for not being good enough. It's the only role that needs time to synergise with all 5 members in every way instead of 1-2 others in specific ways to actually improve. Ofc there are ways to cheat it, like by playing medic in the same way every game (seeds) or by maincalling as a medic to force people to play with you (myself).

4. If you want to play the game better and improve your understanding, then play every role. As a flank player and combo player, knowing your medics weakness and where they like to play is so good as the other medic is likely the same as your own. It helps gets forces and it helps to prevent them too. TF2 is built around uber and spam, so by learning to spam properly and play defensive at the same time it's such an incredible advantage. By playing every role you increase game knowledge by an incredible amount and can easily abuse worse opponents.

5. This post mostly just correlates to players at a high level. So anyone below that should focus on the basic basics first and then worry about what I've put. No excuse for any middies to use this as a cope post by a supposed higher level player cus I also suck.

#1 Everyone except medics hate
#2 Medics hate
#3 Everyone hates
#4 Everyone hates
#5 Middies hate

1. People think they can play medic better than medic mains. They can't even if the player is a meme like Condawg. I have never seen a non-medic main outperform a medic main even if they "know" how to play medic better. For some unknown reason, they are still worse!!! Even if the medic player is a bad player too!

2. All medics suck from all points in time except Raymon, and Shade when playing with B4nny. Shade without B4nny is weak though.

To determine this I've probably watched more medic demos than anyone else alive from raymon, phorofor, ninjanick, shade, condawg, seeds (lotta seeds and condawg and phorofor), dave, cookiejake, permzilla, kos, mirelin, bulle, harbleu (not always on medic tho), turbo, honeybadger, bear, vani, virgil, lolguy, n*rsey and myself. Altogether about 250 demos of just OTHER medics (120-130 hours spent properly watching others, and another 10 just myself).

Raymon is the only "good" medic the game has ever seen. Shade was good but only with b4nny. The reason is because raymon knew what his whole team was thinking without them having to say and shade knew what only b4nny (and perhaps blaze and clockwork) were thinking without having to say. The problem is ofc that shade didnt know what the other members of his team were thinking whereas raymon did. Noone now a days is either smart enough or spends enough time talking to their team about what they want to do to actually get good in the same crucical way.

3. Kinda self fulfilling prophecy. Getting good at medic is an impossibility now because rosters keep swapping too often. Medics go to better teams, or they get cut for not being good enough. It's the only role that needs time to synergise with all 5 members in every way instead of 1-2 others in specific ways to actually improve. Ofc there are ways to cheat it, like by playing medic in the same way every game (seeds) or by maincalling as a medic to force people to play with you (myself).

4. If you want to play the game better and improve your understanding, then play every role. As a flank player and combo player, knowing your medics weakness and where they like to play is so good as the other medic is likely the same as your own. It helps gets forces and it helps to prevent them too. TF2 is built around uber and spam, so by learning to spam properly and play defensive at the same time it's such an incredible advantage. By playing every role you increase game knowledge by an incredible amount and can easily abuse worse opponents.

5. This post mostly just correlates to players at a high level. So anyone below that should focus on the basic basics first and then worry about what I've put. No excuse for any middies to use this as a cope post by a supposed higher level player cus I also suck.
1067
#1067
14 Frags +

i like reading long essay posts

i like reading long essay posts
1068
#1068
RGB LAN
44 Frags +
DoughyThe reason is because raymon knew what his whole team was thinking without them having to say and shade knew what only b4nny (and perhaps blaze and clockwork) were thinking without having to say. The problem is ofc that shade didnt know what the other members of his team were thinking whereas raymon did. Noone now a days is either smart enough or spends enough time talking to their team about what they want to do to actually get good in the same crucical way.

I love these kinds of takes, because there's absolutely no way for you to verify this despite it being such a strong conviction.

[quote=Doughy]The reason is because raymon knew what his whole team was thinking without them having to say and shade knew what only b4nny (and perhaps blaze and clockwork) were thinking without having to say. The problem is ofc that shade didnt know what the other members of his team were thinking whereas raymon did. Noone now a days is either smart enough or spends enough time talking to their team about what they want to do to actually get good in the same crucical way.[/quote]

I love these kinds of takes, because there's absolutely no way for you to verify this despite it being such a strong conviction.
1069
#1069
24 Frags +

If Raymon had telepathy why was he playing TF2...

If Raymon had telepathy why was he playing TF2...
1070
#1070
25 Frags +

I'm sorry but, out of game stuff aside, it's a ridiculous take to leave nursey off the list of 'good' medics even if you're limiting it to that small of a pool

raymon and nursey reached a higher peak relative to their era than any other medics I've ever seen

I'm sorry but, out of game stuff aside, it's a ridiculous take to leave nursey off the list of 'good' medics even if you're limiting it to that small of a pool

raymon and nursey reached a higher peak relative to their era than any other medics I've ever seen
1071
#1071
6 Frags +

also,

Doughy1. People think they can play medic better than medic mains. They can't even if the player is a meme like Condawg. I have never seen a non-medic main outperform a medic main even if they "know" how to play medic better. For some unknown reason, they are still worse!!! Even if the medic player is a bad player too!

too bad shade, cookiejake, permzilla, harbleu, and possibly other people on your list did not start as medic mains

also,
[quote=Doughy]
1. People think they can play medic better than medic mains. They can't even if the player is a meme like Condawg. I have never seen a non-medic main outperform a medic main even if they "know" how to play medic better. For some unknown reason, they are still worse!!! Even if the medic player is a bad player too!
[/quote]

too bad shade, cookiejake, permzilla, harbleu, and possibly other people on your list did not start as medic mains
1072
#1072
27 Frags +

i mean hey, its definitely an unpopular opinion!

i mean hey, its definitely an unpopular opinion!
1073
#1073
42 Frags +

i am the best medic player alive

i am the best medic player alive
1074
#1074
9 Frags +

hell yea i'm on the list of bad medics! i made it mom!

hell yea i'm on the list of bad medics! i made it mom!
1075
#1075
RGB LAN
7 Frags +
Doughy#1 Everyone except medics hate
#2 Medics hate
#3 Everyone hates
#4 Everyone hates
#5 Middies hate

Also, there's no reason to outline this unless you're trying to protect your own ego.

[quote=Doughy]#1 Everyone except medics hate
#2 Medics hate
#3 Everyone hates
#4 Everyone hates
#5 Middies hate[/quote]

Also, there's no reason to outline this unless you're trying to protect your own ego.
1076
#1076
14 Frags +

if you love raymon so much why dont you just marry him

if you love raymon so much why dont you just marry him
1077
#1077
27 Frags +

domo mad he's not the third good medic

domo mad he's not the third good medic
1078
#1078
23 Frags +

I said ALL medics are bad (except 2), not just the ones I listed. Stay mad. Didn't realise people hate being called out so hard.

Also musteroverlord please stop typing forever. I at least restrict my opinions to an unpopular opinions thread (because I know they are) but you type your shit ones everywhere. Pure delusion.

I said ALL medics are bad (except 2), not just the ones I listed. Stay mad. Didn't realise people hate being called out so hard.

Also musteroverlord please stop typing forever. I at least restrict my opinions to an unpopular opinions thread (because I know they are) but you type your shit ones everywhere. Pure delusion.
1079
#1079
38 Frags +

doughy can tell what raymon and shade were thinking to know that they could tell what their teammates were thinking, but cant use this talent on his own teammates to tell what they are thinking and become the 3rd ever good medic? unlucky

doughy can tell what raymon and shade were thinking to know that they could tell what their teammates were thinking, but cant use this talent on his own teammates to tell what they are thinking and become the 3rd ever good medic? unlucky
1080
#1080
3 Frags +

despite the liberal medias constant spin, i am the greatest tf2 player of all time!

despite the liberal medias constant spin, i am the greatest tf2 player of all time!
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