botmode's Profile

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SteamID64	76561198019322078
SteamID3	[U:1:59056350]
SteamID32	STEAM_0:0:29528175
Country	United States
Signed Up	July 29, 2012
Last Posted	April 23, 2024 at 12:07 PM
Posts	1956 (0.5 per day)

Account Details

SteamID64

76561198019322078

SteamID3

[U:1:59056350]

SteamID32

STEAM_0:0:29528175

Country

United States

Signed Up

July 29, 2012

Last Posted

April 23, 2024 at 12:07 PM

Posts

1956 (0.5 per day)

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Game Settings

In-game Sensitivity

Windows Sensitivity

Raw Input

DPI

Resolution

Refresh Rate

Hardware Peripherals
Mouse
Keyboard
Mousepad
Headphones
Monitor

Hardware Peripherals

Mouse

Keyboard

Mousepad

Headphones

Monitor

jermangwhy would u make a thread about a map that already has it's own thread

like why didn't u just post there

Yeah could've done that I guess, sorry
At least there is some discussion, which is really what's necessary to improve the map.

I don't want this map out of the rotation and I don't think it's a bad map, I also realize stalemates happen and lasts can cause big stalemates.

Overall the map is very process-esque and I like it but given that it has a handful of problems I wouldn't call it great yet. I like mid for the most part, I don't like that players can stand on the roof above cafe, it's a really strong position, it's difficult for scouts to fight soldier that jump there and it shuts down cafe-side mids when combined with a soldier on bell tower. There are other positions that can fight cafe-side with soldier bombs (legoland as Lange named it or bell tower - you can also have the roamer bomb behind the enemy combo & distract very easily given the large amount of space in choke). On Second I like that there are three areas to push through and that a team can hold aggressive (medic standing in between choke + valley or on ramp next to lighthouse, dropping off back towards shutter if they get jumped). Like process this map suffers in that soldier bombs from mid are very inneffective - especially if the team holds behind lighthouse (but on the flipside it's much easier to take ground provided you can shut down soldier bombs and not get spotted early) - resulting in stalemates occansionally, not really an issue to me given that they don't last too long. Last and lobby is where it gets weird. Lobby/Water was incredibly confusing at first, and the main problem with its number of splits into smaller numbers is that instead of having two or three areas to check, you have to check EVERY exit of last. Take Snakewater for example: In order for a team to sucessfully push out and not get backcapped, they must cover lobby (covering 3 entrances of lobby), lowerlobby/under (which covers two entrances into last), and check to make sure that no one is hiding in cheese(which 1 player could do on their way to lower lobby). Whereas on sunshine, the lobby area is split into four areas: water, healthpack lower lobby, shutter lobby, and stairway(above healthpack lobby). None of these areas meet up until second, so instead of short exits out of last into an open area you end of with four long exits into second. Although it is possible to stop a backcap through every one of these exits, it's still a sloppy lobby set-up in my opinion. Especially because it's difficult to hold lobby without getting forced / losing numbers (when you are trying to get a kill or something pushing into last), which shaves a few seconds off a spawn timer or uber advantage while walking into an already big last. On last itself, pipe is an incredibly powerful position, essentially shutting down top-left(if you are holding) and water, and during fights the victor can often be determind by pipe control, very similar to granary. When holding last most teams I have seen have been holding on the platform leading out of the right spawn door, dropping their medic into spawn if they need to(especially possible because of slow cap time). However, if you hold your medic in the cubby outside of left spawn door your medic can give heals to left and right (as well as the soldier on pipe if he drops back a bit), is in a very safe position vs bombs and snipers and spies, and a pyro or heavy can VERY effectively shut down a push even without uber. On top of this a heavy or sentry gun can be hid within secret (it doesn't really need to be there it works on gullywash because of the last's small size, but this last is already massive and easy to hold and a player can hide there and attempt to backcap or do something creative like in gullywash)

It isn't a bad map in the slightest, I apologize if I made it seem that way. It definitely should not be voted out, I had originally wanted to wanted to draw attention to the issues we were having with the map and apologize for the immature original post.