Hi again collaide thank u for looking again!
Collaide- Way too much ammo on the roof. The danger of having too much ammo is it makes engineer a lot more viable, which I personally think shouldn't be a goal of any map.
The fence outside spawn is really low, make it obvious you can't walk outside the map.
I don't know how relevant engineer is going to be on koth regardless. imo there isn't enough ammo on via so I wanted to avoid that but I guess I can remove the large ammo whenever if it becomes a problem?
I will raise the fence, np
Collaide- Still many crammed doorways
- There are 5 exits from lobby to the main area. This will make it fairly easy to get flanked, but I don't know if it matters as much as it's koth map and the flanks on either side of the point (I will call them Cliffside and Pitside for simplicity.
- Any reason in particular you have a tiny balcony and straight ramp between lobby and second? I think it would work better by just having a sideways ramp or a straight ramp (and then flipping the orange dev wall inside small healthkit room.)
So I think all of these are sort of similar design areas. I think the crammed areas are mostly in the central route, and the reason for that is because that's the flank. The concept is that the 2 side places are both viable combo areas and so it's a necessity for the central part to be kind of hard to run, if that top area didn't have hard chokes then teams will only ever want to go there, which would mean it's just a map with 2 flanks and the point would be really centralised for attacking aswell. IMO that would break my concept and if it turned out this wouldn't work well in practice I would make an entirely new map with a standardised layout.
Reason for 5 exits is that you need 2 exits per 'side' to break forwards efficiently. Imo you should consider the exits by side, as both exits can be covered by players per side, in terms of defending, but it just makes it more interactive than just you know here's ur exit go jump out of this and we'll follow you.
I'm planning on revamping that shitty underground tunnel, so that each side will end up having a 2 decent exits and access to the flank if they choose to, I hope it will then be really clear what I'm trying to achieve. (right now imo the cliff side feels like a flank thanks to the 'secondary exit' being god awful, tight, uninteresting crap)
The use of a balcony+planks, this tries to help achieve the separation of the areas. You don't come out of the doors, then rotate into the centre point going up the ramp, that would ruin the point. The idea is that when you've chosen to go through that point it's a risk to rotate through to the other side, instead of being able to walk wherever. That's the upshot, if the attackers have multiple good options for attacking, the defenders need to be able to see the lines and react to them. So therefore the attackers either spend time to do a slower rotate through lobby, which is gonna be possible once I've sorted it out more, or they must take that risk of going through that choke. That kind of thing simply isn't gonna be possible if I make it easy to rotate into the middle.
The way I see it, it's like this, imagine if on process you don't have uber on 2nd defending against ppl with 100% on mid. You tend to put ur spam classes more forward to spam out uber if they wanna come choke. If you spot heals going pc you gonna bring ur soldiers and demo back so they're not caught when they uber out lower pc or whatever. Now imagine instead of pc it's just a 1way door you can't see through. Now they can uber out on u without u seeing where they're coming and that's gonna be gay as fuck because you'll always have to hold back thanks to that threat.
That's what this map is gonna be, if you allow the attacking guys to rotate in and out of sides without any real time spent or risk, ur meds always gonna be caught out. I think it's really important not to give the attacking team room to put the uber anywhere, but allow them to send unhealed players everywhere, is the bottom line.
I hope my huge explanation makes some sense to you and I'm not looking to shut down your feedback, I am listening, this is just my perspective on how I see it playing out, it remains to be seen if it's gonna work
Also I am gonna remove that dome house on the cliff side and replace it with like some kind of solid pillar or obelisk. Nobody really likes it so rest assured it's gonna get changed