There are many powerful methods of controlling an enemy's movement in this game. Sentries, airblast, explosive splash, and even regular low-damage hitscan all strongly affect an opponent's aerial momentum. Some methods are difficult to pull off, i.e. airshots, but others are free, i.e. airblast and sentries.
Bhopping isn't as risky as blast jumping from a health pool standpoint, but it is still quite committal to keep your speed, as you have to stop strafing to aim and vice versa. Also, because bhops take a while to build up speed, you can't gain it all back in a single quick burst that would allow unreasonable escapes on low HP without cost.
Bhopping seemed to draw ire in Counter Strike, but in a game with accepted methods of skill based movement that allow much faster travel than bhops, would they be problematic or beneficial?
There are many powerful methods of controlling an enemy's movement in this game. Sentries, airblast, explosive splash, and even regular low-damage hitscan all strongly affect an opponent's aerial momentum. Some methods are difficult to pull off, i.e. airshots, but others are free, i.e. airblast and sentries.
Bhopping isn't as risky as blast jumping from a health pool standpoint, but it is still quite committal to keep your speed, as you have to stop strafing to aim and vice versa. Also, because bhops take a while to build up speed, you can't gain it all back in a single quick burst that would allow unreasonable escapes on low HP without cost.
Bhopping seemed to draw ire in Counter Strike, but in a game with accepted methods of skill based movement that allow much faster travel than bhops, would they be problematic or beneficial?
charleno
Care to elaborate on your opinion? "no" isn't a terribly interesting response to discuss
[quote=charle]no[/quote]
Care to elaborate on your opinion? "no" isn't a terribly interesting response to discuss
Lots of classes are balanced around their move speed cap, forcing them to make certain sacrifices to go faster than their walk speed, due to movement being so valuable. You can see this value in unlocks and mechanics that grant move speed: Heavy quickly has his health pool drained just to move slightly faster, Soldier is marked for death (or has to sacrifice HP and crit heals to blast jump), Demoman has to remove his powerful stickybomb launcher for a quick charge every so often (or again, blast jump and lose health and crit heals), Pyro gets damage vulnerability with her Powerjack, Scout loses his powerful ability to double jump with the Baby Face's Blaster (if he wants the extra move speed) and Medic has reduce his heals by putting away his medigun (and not equipping the crossbow) to use the Overdose (which also has a damage penalty).
Bunnyhopping doesn't have those risks. It adds a lot of extra move speed to classes who were balanced around some other move speed or movement mechanic. I don't think it has a place in TF2.
Lots of classes are balanced around their move speed cap, forcing them to make certain sacrifices to go faster than their walk speed, due to movement being so valuable. You can see this value in unlocks and mechanics that grant move speed: Heavy quickly has his health pool drained just to move slightly faster, Soldier is marked for death (or has to sacrifice HP and crit heals to blast jump), Demoman has to remove his powerful stickybomb launcher for a quick charge every so often (or again, blast jump and lose health and crit heals), Pyro gets damage vulnerability with her Powerjack, Scout loses his powerful ability to double jump with the Baby Face's Blaster (if he wants the extra move speed) and Medic has reduce his heals by putting away his medigun (and not equipping the crossbow) to use the Overdose (which also has a damage penalty).
Bunnyhopping doesn't have those risks. It adds a lot of extra move speed to classes who were balanced around some other move speed or movement mechanic. I don't think it has a place in TF2.
i think that would just make tf2 even less appealing to new players and it would fuck up the balancing quite a bit
i think that would just make tf2 even less appealing to new players and it would fuck up the balancing quite a bit
mastercomsLots of classes are balanced around their move speed cap, forcing them to make certain sacrifices to go faster than their walk speed, due to movement being so valuable. You can see this value in unlocks and mechanics that grant move speed: Heavy quickly has his health pool drained just to move slightly faster, Soldier is marked for death (or has to sacrifice HP and crit heals to blast jump), and Demoman has to remove his powerful stickybomb launcher for a quick charge every so often (or again, blast jump and lose health and crit heals).
Bunnyhopping doesn't have those risks. It adds a lot of extra move speed to classes who were balanced around some other move speed or movement mechanic. I don't think it has a place in TF2.
I agree that the class' differing relative movespeeds are vital to maintaining the game's balance.
What I don't see eye to eye with you on is the comparison to one-class unlocks. Bhops are all class, and could be implemented to not affect classes' max speed relative to each other much. If just flat buffed from their current state, they would inherently benefit fast movespeed classes more than slow classes, who already tend to have blast jumps to gain speed
[quote=mastercoms]Lots of classes are balanced around their move speed cap, forcing them to make certain sacrifices to go faster than their walk speed, due to movement being so valuable. You can see this value in unlocks and mechanics that grant move speed: Heavy quickly has his health pool drained just to move slightly faster, Soldier is marked for death (or has to sacrifice HP and crit heals to blast jump), and Demoman has to remove his powerful stickybomb launcher for a quick charge every so often (or again, blast jump and lose health and crit heals).
Bunnyhopping doesn't have those risks. It adds a lot of extra move speed to classes who were balanced around some other move speed or movement mechanic. I don't think it has a place in TF2.[/quote]
I agree that the class' differing relative movespeeds are vital to maintaining the game's balance.
What I don't see eye to eye with you on is the comparison to one-class unlocks. Bhops are all class, and could be implemented to not affect classes' max speed relative to each other much. If just flat buffed from their current state, they would inherently benefit fast movespeed classes more than slow classes, who already tend to have blast jumps to gain speed
BooleanI agree that the class' differing relative movespeeds are vital to maintaining the game's balance.
What I don't see eye to eye with you on is the comparison to one-class unlocks. Bhops are all class, and could be implemented to not affect classes' max speed relative to each other much. If just flat buffed from their current state, they would inherently benefit fast movespeed classes more than slow classes, who already tend to have blast jumps to gain speed
Well that's exactly what my point is. Since bunnyhopping is all class and doesn't have any special mechanics like unlocks that can be tuned for specific sacrifices, you can't expect them to fit in the game. The things we have in the game right now have much better tradeoffs, are much more class specific and can thus be tuned for each class' design goals and are much more interesting.
[quote=Boolean]I agree that the class' differing relative movespeeds are vital to maintaining the game's balance.
What I don't see eye to eye with you on is the comparison to one-class unlocks. Bhops are all class, and could be implemented to not affect classes' max speed relative to each other much. If just flat buffed from their current state, they would inherently benefit fast movespeed classes more than slow classes, who already tend to have blast jumps to gain speed[/quote]
Well that's exactly what my point is. Since bunnyhopping is all class and doesn't have any special mechanics like unlocks that can be tuned for specific sacrifices, you can't expect them to fit in the game. The things we have in the game right now have much better tradeoffs, are much more class specific and can thus be tuned for each class' design goals and are much more interesting.
TF2 has extremely skill based movement and while adding more options is not necessarily a bad idea it certainly isn't necessary. Adding ways to increase your starting speed could break some jump or even surf maps that were designed up to 10 years ago for the normal movement speeds, and bhopping would also disrupt class balancing since it would allow heavy mains to race around the map, with relative ease. Combined with the height variety of TF2 maps, I think adding bhopping could be harmful to the game by reducing focus on positioning and making running away in fights more common, which in projectile vs projectile is already strong due to the difference in projectile travel times between the attacker and defender
TF2 has extremely skill based movement and while adding more options is not necessarily a bad idea it certainly isn't necessary. Adding ways to increase your starting speed could break some jump or even surf maps that were designed up to 10 years ago for the normal movement speeds, and bhopping would also disrupt class balancing since it would allow heavy mains to race around the map, with relative ease. Combined with the height variety of TF2 maps, I think adding bhopping could be harmful to the game by reducing focus on positioning and making running away in fights more common, which in projectile vs projectile is already strong due to the difference in projectile travel times between the attacker and defender
mastercomsBooleanI agree that the class' differing relative movespeeds are vital to maintaining the game's balance.
What I don't see eye to eye with you on is the comparison to one-class unlocks. Bhops are all class, and could be implemented to not affect classes' max speed relative to each other much. If just flat buffed from their current state, they would inherently benefit fast movespeed classes more than slow classes, who already tend to have blast jumps to gain speed
Well that's exactly what my point is. Because bunnyhopping is all class and don't have any special mechanics like unlocks that can be tuned for specific sacrifices, you can't expect them to fit in the game. The things we have in the game right now have much better tradeoffs, are much more class specific and can thus be tuned for each class' design goals and are much more interesting.
All we have in the game currently are various strengths of blast jump. Rockets, stickies, detonator, wrangler, etc. The only tradeoff the game currently offers is health for mobility.
Bhops offer a tradeoff of a predictable trajectory, an inability to properly aim and deal damage without losing speed immediately, and near-uselessness while moving uphill. Could these tradeoffs not be made to find a home in TF2? Would such rebalancing change TF2 too much to even think of it as the same game?
Also shout outs to whoever downvoted me for wanting a response with more effort than "no". That'll show me for expecting an earnest discussion on the internet. Thank you, mastercoms, for being reasonable and willing to discuss
[quote=mastercoms][quote=Boolean]I agree that the class' differing relative movespeeds are vital to maintaining the game's balance.
What I don't see eye to eye with you on is the comparison to one-class unlocks. Bhops are all class, and could be implemented to not affect classes' max speed relative to each other much. If just flat buffed from their current state, they would inherently benefit fast movespeed classes more than slow classes, who already tend to have blast jumps to gain speed[/quote]
Well that's exactly what my point is. Because bunnyhopping is all class and don't have any special mechanics like unlocks that can be tuned for specific sacrifices, you can't expect them to fit in the game. The things we have in the game right now have much better tradeoffs, are much more class specific and can thus be tuned for each class' design goals and are much more interesting.[/quote]
All we have in the game currently are various strengths of blast jump. Rockets, stickies, detonator, wrangler, etc. The only tradeoff the game currently offers is health for mobility.
Bhops offer a tradeoff of a predictable trajectory, an inability to properly aim and deal damage without losing speed immediately, and near-uselessness while moving uphill. Could these tradeoffs not be made to find a home in TF2? Would such rebalancing change TF2 too much to even think of it as the same game?
Also shout outs to whoever downvoted me for wanting a response with more effort than "no". That'll show me for expecting an earnest discussion on the internet. Thank you, mastercoms, for being reasonable and willing to discuss
HOITF2 has extremely skill based movement and while adding more options is not necessarily a bad idea it certainly isn't necessary. Adding ways to increase your starting speed could break some jump or even surf maps that were designed up to 10 years ago for the normal movement speeds, and bhopping would also disrupt class balancing since it would allow heavy mains to race around the map, with relative ease. Combined with the height variety of TF2 maps, I think adding bhopping could be harmful to the game by reducing focus on positioning and making running away in fights more common, which in projectile vs projectile is already strong due to the difference in projectile travel times between the attacker and defender
Ruining jump maps is a good point I suppose, but if you come in knowing it's made for blast jump practice and cheese it with bhops, you could've just cheesed it faster with noclip
Could you elaborate a little further on the relation between height, projectile travel time, and retreating? I don't think I'm picking up what you're putting down
Also, I'm not saying +100% speed bhops CS:S style would be a good idea lol I'm imagining the effects of a more modest buff to a TAS max of +50%ish with pixel perfect strafing and frame perfect jumps
[quote=HOI]TF2 has extremely skill based movement and while adding more options is not necessarily a bad idea it certainly isn't necessary. Adding ways to increase your starting speed could break some jump or even surf maps that were designed up to 10 years ago for the normal movement speeds, and bhopping would also disrupt class balancing since it would allow heavy mains to race around the map, with relative ease. Combined with the height variety of TF2 maps, I think adding bhopping could be harmful to the game by reducing focus on positioning and making running away in fights more common, which in projectile vs projectile is already strong due to the difference in projectile travel times between the attacker and defender[/quote]
Ruining jump maps is a good point I suppose, but if you come in knowing it's made for blast jump practice and cheese it with bhops, you could've just cheesed it faster with noclip
Could you elaborate a little further on the relation between height, projectile travel time, and retreating? I don't think I'm picking up what you're putting down
Also, I'm not saying +100% speed bhops CS:S style would be a good idea lol I'm imagining the effects of a more modest buff to a TAS max of +50%ish with pixel perfect strafing and frame perfect jumps
Make it so when heavy has GRU equipped he can only run fast if he's bhopping
Make it so when heavy has GRU equipped he can only run fast if he's bhopping
well a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.
well a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.
Having played on bhop-enabled tf2 servers in the past, this seems like a bad idea. All you're really doing is giving everyone an increased movespeed, which doesn't really improve the game any. if anything, it reduces the importance of good movement mechanics in regards to jumping, since aerial movement wouldn't see any comparable speed increase.
Having played on bhop-enabled tf2 servers in the past, this seems like a bad idea. All you're really doing is giving everyone an increased movespeed, which doesn't really improve the game any. if anything, it reduces the importance of good movement mechanics in regards to jumping, since aerial movement wouldn't see any comparable speed increase.
Comangliawell a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"
[quote=Comanglia]well a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.[/quote]
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"
BooleanComangliawell a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"
Now while I personally like having skill based movement, +40% would definitely be way to much, Heavy would be close to scout speed at that point. Maybe a +10% would be ok at most, but even then I think it really should be tied to only specific classes and or items that have a major trade off. Example 1. Buff to Overdose that allows medics to bhop for an additional 10% movement speed. Example 2. Spies can bhop for an additional 10% movement speed while cloaked (cloak and dagger would need a bit of rework otherwise it would drain to fast).
Otherwise bhops would become way to important in general gameplay and honestly I don't think the majority of players would like it, and it would really upset a lot of class balances. Not to mention bhop on scout would be nigh impossible due to the double jump.
Also when I say +10% I am referring to the speed charts on the tf2 wiki here
so for example 2 a cloaked spy would move at 117% speed vs current 107% speed, but only while cloaked and doing bhops.
[quote=Boolean][quote=Comanglia]well a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.[/quote]
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"[/quote]
Now while I personally like having skill based movement, +40% would definitely be way to much, Heavy would be close to scout speed at that point. Maybe a +10% would be ok at most, but even then I think it really should be tied to only specific classes and or items that have a major trade off. Example 1. Buff to Overdose that allows medics to bhop for an additional 10% movement speed. Example 2. Spies can bhop for an additional 10% movement speed while cloaked (cloak and dagger would need a bit of rework otherwise it would drain to fast).
Otherwise bhops would become way to important in general gameplay and honestly I don't think the majority of players would like it, and it would really upset a lot of class balances. Not to mention bhop on scout would be nigh impossible due to the double jump.
Also when I say +10% I am referring to the speed charts on the tf2 wiki [url=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Classes#Speed]here[/url]
so for example 2 a cloaked spy would move at 117% speed vs current 107% speed, but only while cloaked and doing bhops.
ComangliaBooleanComangliawell a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"
Now while I personally like having skill based movement, +40% would definitely be way to much, Heavy would be close to scout speed at that point. Maybe a +10% would be ok at most, but even then I think it really should be tied to only specific classes and or items that have a major trade off. Example 1. Buff to Overdose that allows medics to bhop for an additional 10% movement speed. Example 2. Spies can bhop for an additional 10% movement speed while cloaked (cloak and dagger would need a bit of rework otherwise it would drain to fast).
Otherwise bhops would become way to important in general gameplay and honestly I don't think the majority of players would like it, and it would really upset a lot of class balances. Not to mention bhop on scout would be nigh impossible due to the double jump.
You know that the game already allows a TAS max of +20% extra speed via bhops and nobody uses them because they're too hard to gain any speed with, right? Also, a heavy with +40% speed is 108% of light class movespeed aka same as spy/med speed. Redo your math
[quote=Comanglia][quote=Boolean][quote=Comanglia]well a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.[/quote]
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"[/quote]
Now while I personally like having skill based movement, +40% would definitely be way to much, Heavy would be close to scout speed at that point. Maybe a +10% would be ok at most, but even then I think it really should be tied to only specific classes and or items that have a major trade off. Example 1. Buff to Overdose that allows medics to bhop for an additional 10% movement speed. Example 2. Spies can bhop for an additional 10% movement speed while cloaked (cloak and dagger would need a bit of rework otherwise it would drain to fast).
Otherwise bhops would become way to important in general gameplay and honestly I don't think the majority of players would like it, and it would really upset a lot of class balances. Not to mention bhop on scout would be nigh impossible due to the double jump.[/quote]
You know that the game already allows a TAS max of +20% extra speed via bhops and nobody uses them because they're too hard to gain any speed with, right? Also, a heavy with +40% speed is 108% of light class movespeed aka same as spy/med speed. Redo your math
BooleanComangliaBooleanComangliawell a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"
Now while I personally like having skill based movement, +40% would definitely be way to much, Heavy would be close to scout speed at that point. Maybe a +10% would be ok at most, but even then I think it really should be tied to only specific classes and or items that have a major trade off. Example 1. Buff to Overdose that allows medics to bhop for an additional 10% movement speed. Example 2. Spies can bhop for an additional 10% movement speed while cloaked (cloak and dagger would need a bit of rework otherwise it would drain to fast).
Otherwise bhops would become way to important in general gameplay and honestly I don't think the majority of players would like it, and it would really upset a lot of class balances. Not to mention bhop on scout would be nigh impossible due to the double jump.
You know that the game already allows a TAS max of +20% extra speed via bhops and nobody uses them because they're too hard to gain any speed with, right? Also, a heavy with +40% speed is 107% of light class movespeed. Redo your math
+40% to 77% = 117% speed
unless you mean 0.77 x 1.4 = ~108%
"TAS max of +20% extra speed via bhops"
Wasn't aware of the exact number, personally +20% as in x1.2 seems ok, making it a tiny bit easier is more than enough imo.
[quote=Boolean][quote=Comanglia][quote=Boolean][quote=Comanglia]well a decent buff would just have higher tick servers. Bhopping in CSGO is way easier and more beneficial at 128 tick lol.
Bhopping really shouldn't be that important in tf2 though, bhopping can get pretty crazy and start to really remove the point of having slow and fast classes. At most I can see is giving a single specific class bhops, such as medic or spy even still have it be really hard to do and not make it so a medic flies across the map.[/quote]
Perhaps I should clarify in the OP that I'm trying to imagine the effects of a buff to roughly +50% extra speed in TAS. Realistically this would allow humans to gain +40% of their class' current max movespeed. Slow classes while bhopping would be like a light class, light classes bhopping would be like a scout, etc.
Slow classes would still be notably slower than fast classes while bhopping, and while DMing someone with a hitscan weapon, trying to start a bhop is basically suicide.
I can definitely see why being able to triple your horizontal speed after 7 jumps would be stupid to play against. When I say "buff" I don't mean "TF2 gets quake movement physics"[/quote]
Now while I personally like having skill based movement, +40% would definitely be way to much, Heavy would be close to scout speed at that point. Maybe a +10% would be ok at most, but even then I think it really should be tied to only specific classes and or items that have a major trade off. Example 1. Buff to Overdose that allows medics to bhop for an additional 10% movement speed. Example 2. Spies can bhop for an additional 10% movement speed while cloaked (cloak and dagger would need a bit of rework otherwise it would drain to fast).
Otherwise bhops would become way to important in general gameplay and honestly I don't think the majority of players would like it, and it would really upset a lot of class balances. Not to mention bhop on scout would be nigh impossible due to the double jump.[/quote]
You know that the game already allows a TAS max of +20% extra speed via bhops and nobody uses them because they're too hard to gain any speed with, right? Also, a heavy with +40% speed is 107% of light class movespeed. Redo your math[/quote]
+40% to 77% = 117% speed
unless you mean 0.77 x 1.4 = ~108%
"TAS max of +20% extra speed via bhops"
Wasn't aware of the exact number, personally +20% as in x1.2 seems ok, making it a tiny bit easier is more than enough imo.
mastercomsMedic has reduce his heals by putting away his medigun (and not equipping the crossbow) to use the Overdose (which also has a damage penalty).
Yes, or just heal a scout with their medigun sacrificing what exactly? Haha.
[quote=mastercoms]Medic has reduce his heals by putting away his medigun (and not equipping the crossbow) to use the Overdose (which also has a damage penalty).
[/quote]
Yes, or just heal a scout with their medigun sacrificing what exactly? Haha.
The way bhops work currently would stack multiplicatively with current class max movespeed, not additively. Yes, roughly *1.2 of your current class' movespeed is currently possible with TAS level strafing and perfect jump timing. Making 1.2x speed actually humanly achievable would likely require a TAS max of 35ish%
The way bhops work currently would stack multiplicatively with current class max movespeed, not additively. Yes, roughly *1.2 of your current class' movespeed is currently possible with TAS level strafing and perfect jump timing. Making 1.2x speed actually humanly achievable would likely require a TAS max of 35ish%
No.
I don't want heavies spies or pyros (especially pyros) to be able to move at the speed of light.
No.
I don't want heavies spies or pyros (especially pyros) to be able to move at the speed of light.
bhop is fun but i dont want to see a heavy flying through the map mowing everyone down
bhop is fun but i dont want to see a heavy flying through the map mowing everyone down
sagebhop is fun but i dont want to see a heavy flying through the map mowing everyone down
You can't jump while revved up dude. Do you know how bhops work lol
Also comanglia scout's double jump would make him better at bhopping, it allows more air time to strafe
[quote=sage]bhop is fun but i dont want to see a heavy flying through the map mowing everyone down[/quote]
You can't jump while revved up dude. Do you know how bhops work lol
Also comanglia scout's double jump would make him better at bhopping, it allows more air time to strafe
Booleansagebhop is fun but i dont want to see a heavy flying through the map mowing everyone down
You can't jump while revved up dude. Do you know how bhops work lol
oh well its balanced then /s
[quote=Boolean][quote=sage]bhop is fun but i dont want to see a heavy flying through the map mowing everyone down[/quote]
You can't jump while revved up dude. Do you know how bhops work lol[/quote]
oh well its balanced then /s
its fakin stupid america stop this
its fakin stupid america stop this
I remember seeing a video of a 6v6 mix with bhop and it's soldiers jumping around at max speed, bombing into everything while all other classes feel irrelevant.
Sadly I couldn't find it again. Has been a while since I've seen it but maybe others will remember. The game was on badlands.
If you'd want bunnyhopping in TF2 you'd have to make giant maps to compensate. Otherwise you just get bombed when walking through choke by 2 constantly suiciding max speed soldiers. And at that point just make it an entirely new game or independent mod so you can balance the classes appropriately
But that's judging from a very old video I once saw and what I think would have to be done. Get an inhouse pug going with bunnyhopping and see how it works out if you're that eager to try
I remember seeing a video of a 6v6 mix with bhop and it's soldiers jumping around at max speed, bombing into everything while all other classes feel irrelevant.
Sadly I couldn't find it again. Has been a while since I've seen it but maybe others will remember. The game was on badlands.
If you'd want bunnyhopping in TF2 you'd have to make giant maps to compensate. Otherwise you just get bombed when walking through choke by 2 constantly suiciding max speed soldiers. And at that point just make it an entirely new game or independent mod so you can balance the classes appropriately
But that's judging from a very old video I once saw and what I think would have to be done. Get an inhouse pug going with bunnyhopping and see how it works out if you're that eager to try
Hi, rank 7 tf2 rehopped bhop mastermind here and the answer to this thread is quite simple actually
Show Content
no lol
Hi, rank 7 tf2 rehopped bhop mastermind here and the answer to this thread is quite simple actually
[spoiler]no lol[/spoiler]
this game already allows bhopping however its incredibly unlikely/inconsistent to chain more than 1 or 2 bhops unless you are going down a ramp. in particular, medic has a lot of interesting bhops he can perform the only way to buff bhopping is to make it easier to do as its about as annoying to do as l4d/l4d2 bhops. buffing bhopping would be not only inconsistent in knowing when specific classes arrive at what times, but also aiming projectiles at grounded players
this game already allows bhopping however its incredibly unlikely/inconsistent to chain more than 1 or 2 bhops unless you are going down a ramp. in particular, [url=https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1E0AE20411E1666E]medic has a lot of interesting bhops he can perform[/url] the only way to buff bhopping is to make it easier to do as its about as annoying to do as l4d/l4d2 bhops. buffing bhopping would be not only inconsistent in knowing when specific classes arrive at what times, but also aiming projectiles at grounded players
medic doesnt need to be further buffed
also the momentum you can reach without bhops mutliplied by bhops would be cursed
medic doesnt need to be further buffed
also the momentum you can reach without bhops mutliplied by bhops would be cursed