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Unlock voting project
posted in Projects
1
#1
0 Frags +

I worked on this voting platform project a while ago with someone else and it pretty much just crashed and burned in it's original form so I've re-purposed it to allow for TF2 unlock voting.

https://www.lootvote.com/

Given that we've had some whitelist changes this seems like a good time. There's no requirement to vote on every unlock or even answer all the questions. You can even write nerd essays on the subject if you so desire.

If anyone wants to vote on anything else, maps say, then let me know here and I might be able to do something for those too.

Edit: direct link to full item list
https://www.lootvote.com/game/all/tf2/comp-weapons

I worked on this voting platform project a while ago with someone else and it pretty much just crashed and burned in it's original form so I've re-purposed it to allow for TF2 unlock voting.

https://www.lootvote.com/

Given that we've had some whitelist changes this seems like a good time. There's no requirement to vote on every unlock or even answer all the questions. You can even write nerd essays on the subject if you so desire.

If anyone wants to vote on anything else, maps say, then let me know here and I might be able to do something for those too.

Edit: direct link to full item list
https://www.lootvote.com/game/all/tf2/comp-weapons
2
#2
10 Frags +

The second question "Is this unlock fun." confuses me.

Fun for the player using it, playing against it or both?

Otherwise great initiative!

The second question "Is this unlock fun." confuses me.

Fun for the player using it, playing against it or both?

Otherwise great initiative!
3
#3
2 Frags +
DwapkingThe second question "Is this unlock fun." confuses me.

Fun for the player using it, playing against it or both?

Otherwise great initiative!

I think we're looking for an overall impression, does the fun of using it outweigh the frustration of being killed by it, being called names for using it, any deep inner shame you experience for equipping it, that kind of thing.

[quote=Dwapking]The second question "Is this unlock fun." confuses me.

Fun for the player using it, playing against it or both?

Otherwise great initiative![/quote]
I think we're looking for an overall impression, does the fun of using it outweigh the frustration of being killed by it, being called names for using it, any deep inner shame you experience for equipping it, that kind of thing.
4
#4
Twitch Prime
12 Frags +

is there any relevant differences between stock sniper and AWP (besides sounds), if not might wanna remove it from the list

also the 2nd question has a spelling error "It this weapon fun"

is there any relevant differences between stock sniper and AWP (besides sounds), if not might wanna remove it from the list

also the 2nd question has a spelling error "It this weapon fun"
5
#5
3 Frags +

i really have no idea about most of the rebalanced weapons like GRU and their current status. I feel like i shouldnt comment on those
small suggestion: make it show the weapon stats when you hover over the wep
Also why put the Original or the AWP?
edit: also i feel like some of the questions should be gamemode specific, for example razorback is quite useless in most of 6s but could still see use post-nerf in HL

i really have no idea about most of the rebalanced weapons like GRU and their current status. I feel like i shouldnt comment on those
small suggestion: make it show the weapon stats when you hover over the wep
Also why put the Original or the AWP?
edit: also i feel like some of the questions should be gamemode specific, for example razorback is quite useless in most of 6s but could still see use post-nerf in HL
6
#6
7 Frags +

=

=
7
#7
3 Frags +
unskilledi feel like there should be a way to sort the weapons by rating (either 5 to 1 or 1 to 5)

This is a good idea, might be a bit fiddly though, I'll look into it

[quote=unskilled]i feel like there should be a way to sort the weapons by rating (either 5 to 1 or 1 to 5)[/quote]
This is a good idea, might be a bit fiddly though, I'll look into it
8
#8
-31 Frags +

nice keylogger why do i need to log in lmao

nice keylogger why do i need to log in lmao
9
#9
0 Frags +

how is a weapons overall "value" calculated? confuses me because some categories you would rather be at 1 than 5 eg. rather have them very underpowered than very overpowered

how is a weapons overall "value" calculated? confuses me because some categories you would rather be at 1 than 5 eg. rather have them very underpowered than very overpowered
10
#10
0 Frags +
BumFreezehow is a weapons overall "value" calculated? confuses me because some categories you would rather be at 1 than 5 eg. rather have them very underpowered than very overpowered

The left most option is the highest score, the right most is the lowest. Usually 5 to 1

[quote=BumFreeze]how is a weapons overall "value" calculated? confuses me because some categories you would rather be at 1 than 5 eg. rather have them very underpowered than very overpowered[/quote]
The left most option is the highest score, the right most is the lowest. Usually 5 to 1
11
#11
0 Frags +
GentlemanJonBumFreezehow is a weapons overall "value" calculated? confuses me because some categories you would rather be at 1 than 5 eg. rather have them very underpowered than very overpoweredThe left most option is the highest score, the right most is the lowest. Usually 5 to 1

no i mean the overall rating that gets displayed on the items page, is it just an average of all the values of the questions?

[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=BumFreeze]how is a weapons overall "value" calculated? confuses me because some categories you would rather be at 1 than 5 eg. rather have them very underpowered than very overpowered[/quote]
The left most option is the highest score, the right most is the lowest. Usually 5 to 1[/quote]
no i mean the overall rating that gets displayed on the items page, is it just an average of all the values of the questions?
12
#12
9 Frags +
prsnnice keylogger why do i need to log in lmao

That's not how keyloggers work.

[quote=prsn]nice keylogger why do i need to log in lmao[/quote]

That's not how keyloggers work.
13
#13
0 Frags +
BumFreezeno i mean the overall rating that gets displayed on the items page, is it just an average of all the values of the questions?

Oh right, the category has a primary question - in this case should an unlock be banned - and the that score is used for the summary

[quote=BumFreeze]no i mean the overall rating that gets displayed on the items page, is it just an average of all the values of the questions?[/quote]
Oh right, the category has a primary question - in this case should an unlock be banned - and the that score is used for the summary
14
#14
7 Frags +

NOT THE AWP I CAN'T HIT ANYTHING WITHOUT THE SOUND

NOT THE AWP I CAN'T HIT ANYTHING WITHOUT THE SOUND
15
#15
0 Frags +
PuoskariNOT THE AWP I CAN'T HIT ANYTHING WITHOUT THE SOUND

Don't worry #savetheAWP is working. Currently the 12th most supported unlock

[quote=Puoskari]NOT THE AWP I CAN'T HIT ANYTHING WITHOUT THE SOUND[/quote]
Don't worry #savetheAWP is working. Currently the 12th most supported unlock
16
#16
2 Frags +

So far this is what the allow/ban voting looks like, it is a big image

https://i.imgur.com/esSB1Wf.png

The stuff right at the top with no bar is stuff I am sure people want in the game on the evidence. The stuff at the bottom is stuff I am currently sure nobody wants in the game on the evidence. Everything else is a range. 3 is the middle point, if more of the bar is above that point then there is more support for allowing it than banning it, if more is below that point then there is support for banning it rather than allowing it.

The wider the bar the less sure I am of how much people want it because there are very few votes or the votes are highly varied and don't form a coherent pattern. The widest are a combination of the two. More votes will help narrow these things down, but I can understand nobody giving a shit about the Neon Annihilator.

Sun on a stick getting big support is the obvious take away here

So far this is what the allow/ban voting looks like, it is a big image

https://i.imgur.com/esSB1Wf.png

The stuff right at the top with no bar is stuff I am sure people want in the game on the evidence. The stuff at the bottom is stuff I am currently sure nobody wants in the game on the evidence. Everything else is a range. 3 is the middle point, if more of the bar is above that point then there is more support for allowing it than banning it, if more is below that point then there is support for banning it rather than allowing it.

The wider the bar the less sure I am of how much people want it because there are very few votes or the votes are highly varied and don't form a coherent pattern. The widest are a combination of the two. More votes will help narrow these things down, but I can understand nobody giving a shit about the Neon Annihilator.

Sun on a stick getting big support is the obvious take away here
17
#17
8 Frags +

OK fellow nerds, I have been crunching data. Before getting into unlock details I wanted to look at some general analysis, the total voting users is around 130 which is reasonable considering the competitive population, and voting volumes on each unlock varies but will be reflected by looking at confidence scores based on the deviation of scores and the number of them to within 95% confidence.

Looking at how scores across all unlocks correlate we can draw some interesting conclusions about what makes a good unlock. This table shows the correlation level between the different question scores, "StockBalScore" refers to whether an item is a direct upgrade on stock. Although I look at scout in detail below this table is for all classes

https://i.imgur.com/4rHy2Ba.png

The deeper red shows that something is more strongly correlated. We can see that whether an item adds something to the game is the strongest association with whether an item should be allowed or not. Fun comes next, then whether it requires skill to use well or not. Being overpowered or being a direct upgrade on stock are negatively associated although the relationship is weak. Even so we can see that simply being powerful, being a direct ugprade over stock or even requiring a lot of skill to use aren't the major considerations whether something should be allowed. Essentially "balance" isn't that big a deal as long as an item fulfils other criteria.

Scout
Looking first at scout unlocks let's look at voting activity
https://i.imgur.com/xB5Dkem.png

The FaN has inflated figures because it was on the summary page. Other items attracted more votes on their own merit, the secondaries attracted the most interest, the Shotstop, Winget and Pocket Pistol all attracting over 40 votes. You can cross reference this against the confidence ranges below to see which ones might be broad because of low votes, and which because of voting variation.

Moving onto the "Should this item be allowed" votes
https://i.imgur.com/OZko8n5.png

What we're looking at here are confidence ranges. What this means is that there's inherently some uncertainty about what the votes mean, so taking into account the deviation of votes and whether the number is low or high we show the quantifiable variation in sentiment. The further right the bar is the more people want to allow it.

Also added to the graph are 3 vertical blue dashed bars at 2, 3 and 4. These represent possible places you might draw thresholds if you were creating a whitelist based on these possibilities. So 4 or above might be a very restricted whitelist. Where a range straddles a line then you have to make a judgement about how much lies above or below the threshold.

The unlocks fall into the following groups:
Always allow: Boston Basher, Winger, Shortstop
Medium restrictions: Back Scatter, Son-on-a-stick, Fan O'War, Force-A-Nature, Baby Face's Blaster, Candy Cane
Low restrictions: Atomizer
Always ban: Wrap Assassin, Flying Guillotine, Sandman, Soda Popper, Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol, Bonk! Atomic Punch, Crit-a-Cola, Mad Milk

Boston Basher is the only unlock where every vote was the same: allow it.

The following are the scores for other elements of the scout unlock voting. These also have confidence considerations but the graphs to show them would take up a massive amount of space. This is colour coded red for higher scores, more fun, more OP, adds more to the game, takes more skill to use, and upgrades directly over stock.

https://i.imgur.com/Fy0Imp0.png

I'll summarise some of the other classes when time allows

OK fellow nerds, I have been crunching data. Before getting into unlock details I wanted to look at some general analysis, the total voting users is around 130 which is reasonable considering the competitive population, and voting volumes on each unlock varies but will be reflected by looking at confidence scores based on the deviation of scores and the number of them to within 95% confidence.

Looking at how scores across all unlocks correlate we can draw some interesting conclusions about what makes a good unlock. This table shows the correlation level between the different question scores, "StockBalScore" refers to whether an item is a direct upgrade on stock. Although I look at scout in detail below this table is for all classes

https://i.imgur.com/4rHy2Ba.png

The deeper red shows that something is more strongly correlated. We can see that whether an item adds something to the game is the strongest association with whether an item should be allowed or not. Fun comes next, then whether it requires skill to use well or not. Being overpowered or being a direct upgrade on stock are negatively associated although the relationship is weak. Even so we can see that simply being powerful, being a direct ugprade over stock or even requiring a lot of skill to use aren't the major considerations whether something should be allowed. Essentially "balance" isn't that big a deal as long as an item fulfils other criteria.

[b]Scout[/b]
Looking first at scout unlocks let's look at voting activity
https://i.imgur.com/xB5Dkem.png

The FaN has inflated figures because it was on the summary page. Other items attracted more votes on their own merit, the secondaries attracted the most interest, the Shotstop, Winget and Pocket Pistol all attracting over 40 votes. You can cross reference this against the confidence ranges below to see which ones might be broad because of low votes, and which because of voting variation.

Moving onto the "Should this item be allowed" votes
https://i.imgur.com/OZko8n5.png

What we're looking at here are confidence ranges. What this means is that there's inherently some uncertainty about what the votes mean, so taking into account the deviation of votes and whether the number is low or high we show the quantifiable variation in sentiment. The further right the bar is the more people want to allow it.

Also added to the graph are 3 vertical blue dashed bars at 2, 3 and 4. These represent possible places you might draw thresholds if you were creating a whitelist based on these possibilities. So 4 or above might be a very restricted whitelist. Where a range straddles a line then you have to make a judgement about how much lies above or below the threshold.

The unlocks fall into the following groups:
[b]Always allow:[/b] Boston Basher, Winger, Shortstop
[b]Medium restrictions:[/b] Back Scatter, Son-on-a-stick, Fan O'War, Force-A-Nature, Baby Face's Blaster, Candy Cane
[b]Low restrictions:[/b] Atomizer
[b]Always ban:[/b] Wrap Assassin, Flying Guillotine, Sandman, Soda Popper, Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol, Bonk! Atomic Punch, Crit-a-Cola, Mad Milk

Boston Basher is the only unlock where every vote was the same: allow it.

The following are the scores for other elements of the scout unlock voting. These also have confidence considerations but the graphs to show them would take up a massive amount of space. This is colour coded red for higher scores, more fun, more OP, adds more to the game, takes more skill to use, and upgrades directly over stock.

https://i.imgur.com/Fy0Imp0.png

I'll summarise some of the other classes when time allows
18
#18
7 Frags +

Seeing as the whitelist is being discussed again I'll quickly summarise the other major 6v6 classes, although before that it's worth noting that the sandman is now allowed despite being one of the most unwanted scout unlocks above.

Multiclass

https://i.imgur.com/NLsiLSg.png

This is fairly clear, the Pain Train is universally approved of, the Half Zatoichi also slips into the top bracket of being allowed. The Panic Attack would be in a moderately relaxed whitelist, and the BASE Jumper and Reserve Shooter are banned in anything other than the most insane full unlock zealot's dreams.

Soldier

https://i.imgur.com/aKoQQuG.png

In the top band of allowed unlocks we have Gunboats, Original, Escape Plan, Concheror, Black Box, and Equalizer, Buff Banner and Battalion's Backup just sneak in.
At level 2 Righteous Bison, Liberty Launcher, Market Gardener, Direct Hit and oddly Rocket Jumper also get in.
Although it's hard to see on the graph Man Treads slip into level 3 along with Air Strike and the Cow Mangler.
The only soldier unlocks that make level 4's depth of unpopularity are the Beggar's Bazooka and Disciplinary Action.

These are the other question scores for Soldier unlocks

https://i.imgur.com/CE8odc2.png

As we can see being OP is largely meaningless for Soldier weapons and even being skillful doesn't mean a huge amount.

Demoman

https://i.imgur.com/zSAhJbF.png

Demoman unlocks are actually pretty unpopular with only Iron Bomber making the top level. However they also attracted very low voting totals, it seems a lot of people just don't really care about demo.
At level 2 we have the Loose Cannon, Scottish Resistance, Wee Booties, Sticky Jumper and Caber. There seems to be quite a highlanderish tinge to some of these selections.
Level 3 adds Quickiebomb launcher, Skullcutter, and some other swords
Level 4 contains all the shields and the loch and load. Nobody wants to play against a demo knight.

https://i.imgur.com/PXz4ADE.png

It's a lacklustre set of scores. Few people seem to think the demo unlocks add much to the class, which is odd and probably partly a function of low voting totals. The voting is going to remain open forever (or while the website lives) so if you want to change these results just head on over.

Medic

https://i.imgur.com/WiN7Nd9.png

The Kritzkrieg, Ubersaw and Overdose all make it comfortably into the top level of unlocks
At the 2nd level we have Vita-Saw, Blutsauger and Amputator
The crossbow has slipped into the 3rd level. It seems the nerfs were not enough to save it's reputation
In the 4th level of ban hell is the Solem Vow, Vaccinator and Quick-Fix

https://i.imgur.com/jhjlm4k.png

In the case of the medic being OP was actually an important banning factor, combined with a very strong feeling they add nothing at all to the game.

When I get the final off-classes processed I'll probably put together some example whitelists for comparison.

Seeing as the whitelist is being discussed again I'll quickly summarise the other major 6v6 classes, although before that it's worth noting that the sandman is now allowed despite being one of the most unwanted scout unlocks above.

[b]Multiclass[/b]

https://i.imgur.com/NLsiLSg.png

This is fairly clear, the Pain Train is universally approved of, the Half Zatoichi also slips into the top bracket of being allowed. The Panic Attack would be in a moderately relaxed whitelist, and the BASE Jumper and Reserve Shooter are banned in anything other than the most insane full unlock zealot's dreams.

[b]Soldier[/b]

https://i.imgur.com/aKoQQuG.png

In the top band of allowed unlocks we have Gunboats, Original, Escape Plan, Concheror, Black Box, and Equalizer, Buff Banner and Battalion's Backup just sneak in.
At level 2 Righteous Bison, Liberty Launcher, Market Gardener, Direct Hit and oddly Rocket Jumper also get in.
Although it's hard to see on the graph Man Treads slip into level 3 along with Air Strike and the Cow Mangler.
The only soldier unlocks that make level 4's depth of unpopularity are the Beggar's Bazooka and Disciplinary Action.

These are the other question scores for Soldier unlocks

https://i.imgur.com/CE8odc2.png

As we can see being OP is largely meaningless for Soldier weapons and even being skillful doesn't mean a huge amount.

[b]Demoman[/b]

https://i.imgur.com/zSAhJbF.png

Demoman unlocks are actually pretty unpopular with only Iron Bomber making the top level. However they also attracted very low voting totals, it seems a lot of people just don't really care about demo.
At level 2 we have the Loose Cannon, Scottish Resistance, Wee Booties, Sticky Jumper and Caber. There seems to be quite a highlanderish tinge to some of these selections.
Level 3 adds Quickiebomb launcher, Skullcutter, and some other swords
Level 4 contains all the shields and the loch and load. Nobody wants to play against a demo knight.

https://i.imgur.com/PXz4ADE.png

It's a lacklustre set of scores. Few people seem to think the demo unlocks add much to the class, which is odd and probably partly a function of low voting totals. The voting is going to remain open forever (or while the website lives) so if you want to change these results just head on over.

[b]Medic[/b]

https://i.imgur.com/WiN7Nd9.png

The Kritzkrieg, Ubersaw and Overdose all make it comfortably into the top level of unlocks
At the 2nd level we have Vita-Saw, Blutsauger and Amputator
The crossbow has slipped into the 3rd level. It seems the nerfs were not enough to save it's reputation
In the 4th level of ban hell is the Solem Vow, Vaccinator and Quick-Fix

https://i.imgur.com/jhjlm4k.png

In the case of the medic being OP was actually an important banning factor, combined with a very strong feeling they add nothing at all to the game.

When I get the final off-classes processed I'll probably put together some example whitelists for comparison.
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