Excuse me Mr. Get-Right

also i think tops and bottoms should work towards each others benefit (and pleasure)

I heard somewhere that being a good bottom actually helps you do a better job at being a top. Now, I have no idea how that would apply to being in a straight relationship, but just saying...

Yeah People aren't looking to watch stvs, casts, youtube videos of b4nny or any of the top level tf2 players.....
I mean seriously, you think that you don't play for the benefit of lower level players? People watch better players than themselves to get better. Who do you think makes up a majority of the viewers on twitch? I find it very arrogant that you think you "play" only for the benefit of yourself and the rest of invite. Makes your argument that much more compelling....

What benefit does the bottom have by helping the top?

12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: gimmie shoutout pls
12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: pls

shoutout to sizzlingcalamari, creator of sizzlingstats. you're doing it

well in serious terms having a healthy top of invite could help the game grow more, but i was making a gay sex joke

dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.

http://puu.sh/79793.png

just sayin.

i just wish i had a video of you doing your conch imitation

At least seanbud gets to be a top player again if everyone better than him quits.

dude conch imitations, quad damage imitations, i fuckin do it all

Why would you pay for invites lan? Are you dumb? You pay to play against good competition because you want to be a better player. Sure some teams play just for fun with their friends, and that's fine. But most people play to get better and hopefully one day work their way up towards invite, main, Im, whatever division they really want to play at. I wouldn't touch this game if there was no reason for me to play. I play to play against the best of NA. I play because its fun to play with other friends too. I literally went to my first lan ever last season, and it was a fucking blast. If you don't place 2nd or 1st, you lose money so idk how you actually pay for anyone's lan besides first or second. Even the second place check was 327 or something, add in food costs, hotel.costs, and its only like a 100-125 gain. I could make that in a matter of days instead of months of scrimming 5 times a night for 2 hours. And if you think we play for a free.lan, man u are dumb

tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.

and fat kids like to steal smarties

we love anime: alive
LiT/XTS: alive
6cuties: alive
where is sureshot: alive
mix^: alive
clock's team: alive

it's weird how teams stay alive when they don't get emo and go to open because "invites too hard :("

i went 1-15 back to back seasons and am still interested in playing at the highest level against the best players and teams. sorry we're not all butthurt bitches who want easy wins in open (btw sick dh pocket...im sorry i meant scouting, in open bro!)

If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?

I'm making a competitive connect four league who's in?

Is there a LAN?

open illuminati > invite illuminati.

If you're rational enough to understand why some players hold the LAN as their sole motivation for playing, it should also be fathomable that there are at least as many who could give a shit.

If sticking with ESEA and continuing to shove money at them is an important point of value for them, and for Killing personally in particular, then why the serial contempt of the game from management, and constant reminders that the game is a department consistently in the red for them? Why should begrudging charity warrant unwavering support? A clean break sounds mutually beneficial, Killing aside.

If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.

Because that's what this comes down to, doesn't it? I'm not sure how any argument against the CEVO movement adds up to anything greater than a massive sunk cost fallacy. Remove all the cognitive dissonance and selective arguments in this thread and you're left with 'BUT top players love the LAN' over and over. Sure, the era of top-division players playing for shits like it's CAL in 2004 is long gone, understood. That isn't justification for putting on two or three LANs a year for a scene that just doesn't have the numbers for it. Attempting to guilt the rest of the community that doesn't want to prop up that status quo with their wallets anymore is bullshit. Call it what you will, bandwagoning, abandonment, outsider/pubbers peddling their worthless opinions (as I can already see some of you warming up your keyboards for), killing the game, hivemind clusterfuck, whatever; it's just players saying 'fuck this we're out.'

So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.

Use your brain, LANs cost a ton of money. The fees that invite players pay do not cover the costs of a TF2 LAN. Which means that the money must come from elsewhere. That money comes from, you guessed it, people in the lower divisions.

I would be dumbfounded if the invite players cover a majority of the LAN fees themselves. Not to mention the servers they use in the regular season, and the sys admins that ESEA hires to maintenance their servers.

The online-only players pay a disproportionate amount of the costs in ESEA tf2. This makes sense since they exist in larger numbers, and its easy to recognize that they cover your LAN costs. (Other than the hotel and plane fees you mentioned)

If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.

no and this is why youre still a fucking moron

listen here tc,0-20,trashcan, don't associate me with your shit posting. Please stay in the dumpster.

yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.

The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.

if you get to assume cevo is going to be better for them am i allowed to assume that esea would've been flawless this season and lan would've catapulted tf2 to unprecedented levels of popularity?

well im just gonna take my magic carpet to europe thats only 50 quid and enjoy etf2l later guys

Invite teams need an ESEA LAN so that they can prove they're good enough to go to i52 and lose against teams in Prem

I was strictly talking about NA here but thanks

I like you Quin, you know I do. So i'll just lay it all out right here in one single ginormous question that everyone would love to know and please don't spare any details.

Question:
Do you really think in just a few days you will be able to offer a league that's an equal to ESEA AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, or do you think that will take a good amount of time? 4 competitive divisions, website functioning, servers, lans, etc.

My own personal question:
If the answer is no, which it has to be, then why have you guys been campaigning for months when you knew it would come to this? Not saying it's bad, if CEVO was 100% ready to provide something equal to what ESEA provides I wouldn't even be posting this right now. But clearly there's much to be done. So my own personal question is, since the malware is gone in ESEA, why do YOU think we need to change?

ESEA has been around for 16 seasons they shouldn't have to campaign for newer players like you guys did. They could always improve their system but they don't need an entire overhaul like CEVO does. Never before have I ever really seen ESEA on the forums campaigning for new members because everyone already knew that was our "premier" league. Obviously you guys joining forces with CEVO and making a big run for it publically when this has never happened before would split the community. So if this was your intention then I really hope you, Lange, and everyone else all of whom I respect really know what you're doing. Otherwise you're going to put a big hurt on competitive TF2 for absolutely no reason at all besides shifting websites and putting out a lesser quality league initially. In a game that's 7 years old and already questionably in decline competitively it's a real fragile situation.

Do you really think if CEVO hadn't come about, that ESEA would be having these problems filling up their open division? I don't think so. If it's not broke don't fix it. That's my opinion. And I don't really like ESEA as a company I just enjoy the best competition. I don't like to work either. I have to go there though to make money unfortunately if I want to have nice things in life.