TheManWithNoName
wait, there is only one LAN in all of EU?
Apart from iseries there is no other fully european lan. All the other lans are local/national lans by the local communities ie: russian pixling lan, french lan, portuguese community lan. But these lans are rather small and only local people play.
[quote=TheManWithNoName]
wait, there is only one LAN in all of EU?
[/quote]
Apart from iseries there is no other fully european lan. All the other lans are local/national lans by the local communities ie: russian pixling lan, french lan, portuguese community lan. But these lans are rather small and only local people play.
radiumbreloomradium I wonder if CEVO is willing to create/sponsor an invitation-only LAN.
yo. the whole point of CEVO is that it's LAN free.
The spectacle of LAN has driven a lot of new blood into Open over the last few seasons. I think that you NEED a LAN for that reason alone. It's literally our Super Bowl from an exposure/marketing standpoint. I think that the migration would have happened already if CEVO were to say "we're running a league funded LAN event".
How the LAN participants are FUNDED needs to be addressed, but I think the that idea of a LAN championship is quite an honorable one.
Has it though? The most recent esea lan was absolutely atrocious to watch. I'd attribute the new open players to the work that pet/giffy started that vickm and noona have continued in the newbie mixes finally paying dividends in the new players reaching a skill level that makes them comfortable paying to play.
EDIT: Also, half the spectacle of lan is the sheer amount of matches packed within a 2 day window that could easily be replicated online.
[quote=radium][quote=breloom][quote=radium] I wonder if CEVO is willing to create/sponsor an invitation-only LAN.
[/quote]
yo. the whole point of CEVO is that it's LAN free.[/quote]
The spectacle of LAN has driven a lot of new blood into Open over the last few seasons. I think that you NEED a LAN for that reason alone. It's literally our Super Bowl from an exposure/marketing standpoint. I think that the migration would have happened already if CEVO were to say "we're running a league funded LAN event".
How the LAN participants are FUNDED needs to be addressed, but I think the that idea of a LAN championship is quite an honorable one.[/quote]
Has it though? The most recent esea lan was absolutely atrocious to watch. I'd attribute the new open players to the work that pet/giffy started that vickm and noona have continued in the newbie mixes finally paying dividends in the new players reaching a skill level that makes them comfortable paying to play.
EDIT: Also, half the spectacle of lan is the sheer amount of matches packed within a 2 day window that could easily be replicated online.
KanecoETF2L has grown steadily over the past years despite being a community run free to play league, CEVO hasn't grown because people ditch it in favor of ESEA.
yeaaaah none of this true
modeling the NA community after the dead european one is a good idea because ..?
[quote=Kaneco]ETF2L has grown steadily over the past years despite being a community run free to play league, CEVO hasn't grown because people ditch it in favor of ESEA.[/quote]
yeaaaah none of this true
modeling the NA community after the dead european one is a good idea because ..?
Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
PlatinumWould you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
holy shit yes i would even if i knew i wouldn't get laid for a year after
[quote=Platinum]Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.[/quote]
holy shit yes i would even if i knew i wouldn't get laid for a year after
The might be just the dumbest metaphor I've ever seen.
The might be just the dumbest metaphor I've ever seen.
KanecoTheManWithNoName
wait, there is only one LAN in all of EU?
Apart from iseries there is no other fully european lan. All the other lans are local/national lans by the local communities ie: russian pixling lan, french lan, portuguese community lan. But these lans are rather small and only local people play.
...what would lead you to believe, that at least when it comes to TF2, that LANs like ETS are anything other than regional LANs?
for example: ETS is about 1750 miles/2800 km from where i live (comparable to the distance from Paris to Moscow)
[quote=Kaneco][quote=TheManWithNoName]
wait, there is only one LAN in all of EU?
[/quote]
Apart from iseries there is no other fully european lan. All the other lans are local/national lans by the local communities ie: russian pixling lan, french lan, portuguese community lan. But these lans are rather small and only local people play.[/quote]
...what would lead you to believe, that at least when it comes to TF2, that LANs like ETS are anything other than regional LANs?
for example: ETS is about 1750 miles/2800 km from where i live (comparable to the distance from Paris to Moscow)
Platinum stepping in to show that the euros aren't the only ones who have an egotistical cunt named Mike.
Platinum stepping in to show that the euros aren't the only ones who have an egotistical cunt named Mike.
a camera would be awesome i've been asking mine to make a sex tape for YEARS
a camera would be awesome i've been asking mine to make a sex tape for YEARS
PlatinumWould you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
Are you even trying anymore?
[quote=Platinum]Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.[/quote]
Are you even trying anymore?
PlatinumSneakyPolarBearPlat, for the vast majority of us, it has never been about the viwers, or the LAN , or the competition. For me -- and I think for many many players (all the way to low mid invite) -- it has always and will always be about a love of the game.
I don't care about LAN or prize pools, all I want is to play team fortress 2 without installing malware on my computer.
ESEA has been great in its prize pools and LANs, but you have to recognize that 90% of players in comp tf2 play for one reason and one reason only: fun competition. If the 10% of people who only play to be sure that they are the very best (read: LAN) cannot find another reason to play, then unfortunately they will be lost.
There are some really promising prospects in terms of leagues and I know that me and my team (as well as many others) are finished with esea forever.
The true question now is will invite teams boldly go and lead us to a new league or will the 99% of tf2 players (if you will) will find a new league and kill esea tf2 once and for all. I have faith that even in this second case the competition will live on, if only because we love it so.
If 90 percent play for love of the game, why do you need the 10 percent to make your move successful?
My point is that, while it would be nice, we don't.
I would hope that after the 20+ LAN donation drives that have benefited invite at the expense of everyone else, maybe invite players could and would reciprocate. I know you stream and give back to the community that way, but think about invite as a whole. Is this not a reasonable request?
[quote=Platinum][quote=SneakyPolarBear]Plat, for the vast majority of us, it has never been about the viwers, or the LAN , or the competition. For me -- and I think for many many players (all the way to low mid invite) -- it has always and will always be about a love of the game.
I don't care about LAN or prize pools, all I want is to play team fortress 2 without installing malware on my computer.
ESEA has been great in its prize pools and LANs, but you have to recognize that 90% of players in comp tf2 play for one reason and one reason only: fun competition. If the 10% of people who only play to be sure that they are the very best (read: LAN) cannot find another reason to play, then unfortunately they will be lost.
There are some really promising prospects in terms of leagues and I know that me and my team (as well as many others) are finished with esea forever.
The true question now is will invite teams boldly go and lead us to a new league or will the 99% of tf2 players (if you will) will find a new league and kill esea tf2 once and for all. I have faith that even in this second case the competition will live on, if only because we love it so.[/quote]
If 90 percent play for love of the game, why do you need the 10 percent to make your move successful?[/quote]
My point is that, while it would be nice, we don't.
I would hope that after the 20+ LAN donation drives that have benefited invite at the expense of everyone else, maybe invite players could and would reciprocate. I know you stream and give back to the community that way, but think about invite as a whole. Is this not a reasonable request?
enigmaKanecoETF2L has grown steadily over the past years despite being a community run free to play league, CEVO hasn't grown because people ditch it in favor of ESEA.
yeaaaah none of this true
modeling the NA community after the dead european one is a good idea because ..?
Fair enough, I edited that out after I spoke to an etf2l admin and confirmed it. It hasn't grown but it isn't dead either. There were more than 300 teams signed up for the 6v6 league this season, that's at least 1800 players this season alone.
And I'm sure valve would be much more inclined or hinted to support a fully community run league than a business.
[quote=enigma][quote=Kaneco]ETF2L has grown steadily over the past years despite being a community run free to play league, CEVO hasn't grown because people ditch it in favor of ESEA.[/quote]
yeaaaah none of this true
modeling the NA community after the dead european one is a good idea because ..?[/quote]
Fair enough, I edited that out after I spoke to an etf2l admin and confirmed it. It hasn't grown but it isn't dead either. There were more than 300 teams signed up for the 6v6 league this season, that's at least 1800 players this season alone.
And I'm sure valve would be much more inclined or hinted to support a fully community run league than a business.
"I don't mind losing my civil rights to attend more NSEA LANs" -Platinum
"I don't mind losing my civil rights to attend more NSEA LANs" -Platinum
PlatinumWould you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
To some people it is not that simple. I use my desktop for work often and 90% of my work is proprietary information that, above all, must remain secret. The fact that ESEA has said nothing about their privacy policies, and adding a client that could not be uninstalled, is too damning to some people. While it's unlikely that ESEA was taking anything other than GPU power, it's too much of a risk anymore.
The main reason that I truly believe that they were doing something worse than they are letting on is how quickly they basically signed over the right to control their own business. They must now hire a 3rd party that the AG agrees to and this person has the final say on their new client. That is a lot of power to give up if you didn't do something extremely wrong. Add in the fact that they settled out of court, so that no-one had to testify, just gives me the creeps.
[quote=Platinum]Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.[/quote]
To some people it is not that simple. I use my desktop for work often and 90% of my work is proprietary information that, above all, must remain secret. The fact that ESEA has said nothing about their privacy policies, and adding a client that could not be uninstalled, is too damning to some people. While it's unlikely that ESEA was taking anything other than GPU power, it's too much of a risk anymore.
The main reason that I truly believe that they were doing something worse than they are letting on is how quickly they basically signed over the right to control their own business. They must now hire a 3rd party that the AG agrees to and this person has the final say on their new client. That is a lot of power to give up if you didn't do something extremely wrong. Add in the fact that they settled out of court, so that no-one had to testify, just gives me the creeps.
#131 thanks for reading and appreciating the subtlety. #132, not really. I've made my point and any time I've asked for a reasonable alternative or even something coherently on the works I receive some hearsay response about something that might happen. I'm done for now. Will check back tonight for any semblance of a promising solution.
#131 thanks for reading and appreciating the subtlety. #132, not really. I've made my point and any time I've asked for a reasonable alternative or even something coherently on the works I receive some hearsay response about something that might happen. I'm done for now. Will check back tonight for any semblance of a promising solution.
KanecoenigmaKanecoETF2L has grown steadily over the past years despite being a community run free to play league, CEVO hasn't grown because people ditch it in favor of ESEA.
yeaaaah none of this true
modeling the NA community after the dead european one is a good idea because ..?
Fair enough, I edited that out after I spoke to an etf2l admin and confirmed it. It hasn't grown but it isn't dead either. There were more than 300 teams signed up for the 6v6 league this season, that's at least 1800 players this season alone.
And I'm sure valve would be much more inclined or hinted to support a fully community run league than a business.
here are some cold hard facts:
sponsors do not magically appear
valve does not care about competitive TF2
european tf2 is dying
NA tf2 is stagnant
circlejerking each other about how a community-run league is going to save video gaming from the evils of capitalism and usher in a golden age of tf2 isn't just naive -- it's downright destructive
[quote=Kaneco][quote=enigma][quote=Kaneco]ETF2L has grown steadily over the past years despite being a community run free to play league, CEVO hasn't grown because people ditch it in favor of ESEA.[/quote]
yeaaaah none of this true
modeling the NA community after the dead european one is a good idea because ..?[/quote]
Fair enough, I edited that out after I spoke to an etf2l admin and confirmed it. It hasn't grown but it isn't dead either. There were more than 300 teams signed up for the 6v6 league this season, that's at least 1800 players this season alone.
And I'm sure valve would be much more inclined or hinted to support a fully community run league than a business.[/quote]
here are some cold hard facts:
sponsors do not magically appear
valve does not care about competitive TF2
european tf2 is dying
NA tf2 is stagnant
circlejerking each other about how a community-run league is going to save video gaming from the evils of capitalism and usher in a golden age of tf2 isn't just naive -- it's downright destructive
ETF2L is not really a step forward IMO.
If people were to play in a new league, I think it should be a league that is constantly improving and will be better than ESEA and continue to improve with the players' interests in mind.(most likely a new league)
For example, when teamfortress.tv was made, it was not a down or sidegrade of Gotfrag/NATF2, it was a clear upgrade.
This is all coming from the guy that is putting no effort into making this happen though, so yeah.
ETF2L is not really a step forward IMO.
If people were to play in a new league, I think it should be a league that is constantly improving and will be better than ESEA and continue to improve with the players' interests in mind.(most likely a new league)
For example, when teamfortress.tv was made, it was not a down or sidegrade of Gotfrag/NATF2, it was a clear upgrade.
This is all coming from the guy that is putting no effort into making this happen though, so yeah.
this thread fucking sucks
this thread fucking sucks
competition didn't peak at i46 just because b4nny with an actually active pocket soldier was too hard a challenge for you platinum...
competition didn't peak at i46 just because b4nny with an actually active pocket soldier was too hard a challenge for you platinum...
Platinum#132, not really. I've made my point and any time I've asked for a reasonable alternative or even something coherently on the works I receive some hearsay response about something that might happen. I'm done for now. Will check back tonight for any semblance of a promising solution.
All I'm waiting on now is for you to say you're our fucking commander and that's why we should take your word as gospel.
[quote=Platinum]#132, not really. I've made my point and any time I've asked for a reasonable alternative or even something coherently on the works I receive some hearsay response about something that might happen. I'm done for now. Will check back tonight for any semblance of a promising solution.[/quote]
All I'm waiting on now is for you to say you're our fucking commander and that's why we should take your word as gospel.
PlatinumWould you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
http://i.imgur.com/H1bOlBx.gif
[quote=Platinum]Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a [size=14]camera[/size] in your [size=14]room?[/size] If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.[/quote]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/H1bOlBx.gif[/img]
1st off, it's impossible to keep up with all of this drama. And 2nd, before platinum went off on a tangent and used the 3rd worst metaphor I've ever heard in my life, I really have to agree with him and I don't blame mixup for playing how they did in their match (albeit if I were on 6cuties I would've probably been mad) it' just as frustrating for mix. Invite this season is honestly a joke, people in the past two seasons would say things like "why is vector in invite?" well in reality I'd say 4/5 of the moveup teams in invite this season are barely better than vector at best. I don't' want to offend any of the players or say all the new invite players suck but honestly this season is absolutely beyond fucking boring. I have absolutely no drive to play because there is no competition, I'm inevitably getting 3rd place, we beat all the moveup teams with relative ease and I have to put no time into the game because there is no competition, and then we lose to iT and mixup who we would lose to anyway despite how much time I or my team puts in. Playing a competitive game in which I can put forth 0 effort and win isn't exactly fun, and thats probably how platinum feels too. I probably sound disrespectful and I know a lot of the moveup teams are trying hard which I respect but this season sucks, its boring, and that's just the truth. Even liT would've been like, 6th or maybe 7th last season its a big difference.
I really did used to love this game, I poured hundreds of hours into practicing so I could be the best and make invite and all that but now it's just silly, no point in playing a competitive game in which competition doesn't exist.
About LAN, honestly I think that lan isn't that important and is really a hassle, the prize is not worth going at all, and we'll be going to play for third place. We'll either be losing money out of our pockets which I don't have already, or taking money from the community to go, it's just so stupid to me. There is no reason to go to lan except to entertain viewers, but you could do the same thing online, not at lan, and attract a lot of attention with an end of season finals over the course of a day or two without losing a ton of money for frankly, what is going to be a boring event until the final match.
I think that staying with ESEA is obviously a bad idea, if you think continuing to use them is a good idea well I think you're pretty wrong, but I don't think that making a new league will work either.
I don't want to be a big debby downer because there are a lot of people who still love tf2, but I really think the games just about dead. This is the worst season of invite ever, coupled with esea coming out as an awful, disrespectful league, as well as tons of players quitting, stream numbers going down by a lot etc. I'd say the game is near death, and the only thing that could save it is similar to what extine said in one of the first posts about this, the community kinda has to take a risk and ALL ACTUALLY JOIN a league that isn't esea but offers extremely similar features, or we fucking stick with esea, and just try something new and if everyone plays in it then it might just work. If that doesn't happen I can't see anything but a grim ending to comp tf2 :/
tldr; mix^ although sorta douchy what they did is understandable, worst season of invite ever, need to switch from esea to new league, lan isn't necessary. The community has to ALL do the same thing, or it won't work.
Sorry for the longest ramble ever, I just decided to read all of the drama threads at once now :L
1st off, it's impossible to keep up with all of this drama. And 2nd, before platinum went off on a tangent and used the 3rd worst metaphor I've ever heard in my life, I really have to agree with him and I don't blame mixup for playing how they did in their match (albeit if I were on 6cuties I would've probably been mad) it' just as frustrating for mix. Invite this season is honestly a joke, people in the past two seasons would say things like "why is vector in invite?" well in reality I'd say 4/5 of the moveup teams in invite this season are barely better than vector at best. I don't' want to offend any of the players or say all the new invite players suck but honestly this season is absolutely beyond fucking boring. I have absolutely no drive to play because there is no competition, I'm inevitably getting 3rd place, we beat all the moveup teams with relative ease and I have to put no time into the game because there is no competition, and then we lose to iT and mixup who we would lose to anyway despite how much time I or my team puts in. Playing a competitive game in which I can put forth 0 effort and win isn't exactly fun, and thats probably how platinum feels too. I probably sound disrespectful and I know a lot of the moveup teams are trying hard which I respect but this season sucks, its boring, and that's just the truth. Even liT would've been like, 6th or maybe 7th last season its a big difference.
I really did used to love this game, I poured hundreds of hours into practicing so I could be the best and make invite and all that but now it's just silly, no point in playing a competitive game in which competition doesn't exist.
About LAN, honestly I think that lan isn't that important and is really a hassle, the prize is not worth going at all, and we'll be going to play for third place. We'll either be losing money out of our pockets which I don't have already, or taking money from the community to go, it's just so stupid to me. There is no reason to go to lan except to entertain viewers, but you could do the same thing online, not at lan, and attract a lot of attention with an end of season finals over the course of a day or two without losing a ton of money for frankly, what is going to be a boring event until the final match.
I think that staying with ESEA is obviously a bad idea, if you think continuing to use them is a good idea well I think you're pretty wrong, but I don't think that making a new league will work either.
I don't want to be a big debby downer because there are a lot of people who still love tf2, but I really think the games just about dead. This is the worst season of invite ever, coupled with esea coming out as an awful, disrespectful league, as well as tons of players quitting, stream numbers going down by a lot etc. I'd say the game is near death, and the only thing that could save it is similar to what extine said in one of the first posts about this, the community kinda has to take a risk and ALL ACTUALLY JOIN a league that isn't esea but offers extremely similar features, or we fucking stick with esea, and just try something new and if everyone plays in it then it might just work. If that doesn't happen I can't see anything but a grim ending to comp tf2 :/
tldr; mix^ although sorta douchy what they did is understandable, worst season of invite ever, need to switch from esea to new league, lan isn't necessary. The community has to ALL do the same thing, or it won't work.
Sorry for the longest ramble ever, I just decided to read all of the drama threads at once now :L
https://twitter.com/zooob/status/370825590019878912
https://twitter.com/zooob/status/400672522993025025
~40000 competitive players in Europe? Would like to know how many of those have played in more than one match though.
https://twitter.com/zooob/status/370825590019878912
https://twitter.com/zooob/status/400672522993025025
~40000 competitive players in Europe? Would like to know how many of those have played in more than one match though.
PlatinumWould you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.
Just quoting this so I can find it easily.
[quote=Platinum]Would you leave your girlfriend if she put a camera in your room? If you left her without a decent prospect, you may feel morally sound, but you're not getting laid for a long time.[/quote]
Just quoting this so I can find it easily.
Platinum
If 90 percent play for love of the game, why do you need the 10 percent to make your move successful?
because the ten percent is what keeps a lot of us going. There are a lot of people who want to be the best, seeing people like you, it gives a drive. You said it yourself earlier
Platinum With nothing to play for, fun is the only option and therefore competition dwindles
the best is what we play for
for me personally, my drive to improve and try is often fueled by seeing how much better other players are than me, and me not wanting to settle for it. I'm not sure how common this mentality is, but when I first started getting into competitive, I would watch the casts that sal uploaded to his youtube channel, and seeing how much better everyone was than me is what made me stick with the game. It's what made me practice.
I doubt this is ever going to happen but if all of invite just moved to a different league with the equivalent div, then people would flock to it. The higher the skill level, the more people want to improve and try to reach that level. how do you get to invite? well, first you need to play in ESEA, not ugc/etf2l/any other league. It's not that we need invite teams for the move to be successful, its that it would bring a lot of exposure and really speed the whole process up and cement it as an actual thing.
I don't think you realize/appreciate fully how much weight your word and actions carry. When your name is often dropped as "one of the best" then everyone who plays this game is going to listen and follow you.
but all of this is just talk, you're going to do whatever you want, and so is everyone else. I'm just trying to understand where people are coming from.
[quote=Platinum]
If 90 percent play for love of the game, why do you need the 10 percent to make your move successful?[/quote]
because the ten percent is what keeps a lot of us going. There are a lot of people who want to be the best, seeing people like you, it gives a drive. You said it yourself earlier
[quote=Platinum] With nothing to play for, fun is the only option and therefore competition dwindles[/quote]
the best is what we play for
for me personally, my drive to improve and try is often fueled by seeing how much better other players are than me, and me not wanting to settle for it. I'm not sure how common this mentality is, but when I first started getting into competitive, I would watch the casts that sal uploaded to his youtube channel, and seeing how much better everyone was than me is what made me stick with the game. It's what made me practice.
I doubt this is ever going to happen but if all of invite just moved to a different league with the equivalent div, then people would flock to it. The higher the skill level, the more people want to improve and try to reach that level. how do you get to invite? well, first you need to play in ESEA, not ugc/etf2l/any other league. It's not that we [b]need[/b] invite teams for the move to be successful, its that it would bring a lot of exposure and really speed the whole process up and cement it as an actual thing.
I don't think you realize/appreciate fully how much weight your word and actions carry. When your name is often dropped as "one of the best" then everyone who plays this game is going to listen and follow you.
but all of this is just talk, you're going to do whatever you want, and so is everyone else. I'm just trying to understand where people are coming from.
welp, rip tf2. i had fun watching the community kill its own game.
welp, rip tf2. i had fun watching the community kill its own game.
rr-welp, rip tf2. i had fun watching the community kill its own game.
Send lpkane a donation, he's going through a hard time thanks to us selfish cunts.
[quote=rr-]welp, rip tf2. i had fun watching the community kill its own game.[/quote]
Send lpkane a donation, he's going through a hard time thanks to us selfish cunts.
HEY GUYS
THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WIN MONEY OFF THIS GAME
DON'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE THE SHITTY FUCKING LEAGUE THAT CATERS ONLY TO THEM
http://i.imgur.com/rjVlD2N.jpg
HEY GUYS
THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WIN MONEY OFF THIS GAME
DON'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE THE SHITTY FUCKING LEAGUE THAT CATERS ONLY TO THEM
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rjVlD2N.jpg[/IMG]
rr-welp, rip tf2. i had fun watching the community kill its own game.
yeah, this past week has been pretty disgusting. actually this past month has been pretty hard to stomach, both from the community and from esea.
[quote=rr-]welp, rip tf2. i had fun watching the community kill its own game.[/quote]
yeah, this past week has been pretty disgusting. actually this past month has been pretty hard to stomach, both from the community and from esea.
"And they said a super team wouldn't kill invite"
"And they said a super team wouldn't kill invite"