This thread is a discussion of Robin Walker's comment on TF2, and how he feels the game has become stale.
I have watched and enjoyed the hell out of competitive TF2 and 6s for a while now. Have I really watched the same thing over and over? Have I watched the same strats executed while the only thing that changed were the names of the players? Sure the same basic components of the game have always been there (like the push/hold mechanic) but I find it hard to believe the game isn't changing anymore.
This thread is a discussion of Robin Walker's comment on TF2, and how he feels the game has become stale.
I have watched and enjoyed the hell out of competitive TF2 and 6s for a while now. Have I really watched the same thing over and over? Have I watched the same strats executed while the only thing that changed were the names of the players? Sure the same basic components of the game have always been there (like the push/hold mechanic) but I find it hard to believe the game isn't changing anymore.
I have only been watching competitive 6s since season 10 of ESEA so i can't say much but I do know that I am always amazed every game i watch at what happens and how every team is unique in their own playstyle. I don't think it's stale at all especially if new maps keep getting added since those change the meta a lot.
I have only been watching competitive 6s since season 10 of ESEA so i can't say much but I do know that I am always amazed every game i watch at what happens and how every team is unique in their own playstyle. I don't think it's stale at all especially if new maps keep getting added since those change the meta a lot.
It's going to change, of course. Metagames change, regardless of whether or not it seems like it. The question is, is it going fast enough for that to be interesting? And honestly, that's... not the case, regardless of if you think that's a good or bad thing. It's very much slightly nudging on its own, meaning a lot of 6s is based on execution.
It's difficult to argue for changes, because it seems like people believe that to have the chance of causing complete anarchy, kicked dogs and crying children, but yeah, I wouldn't mind some changes. But only small ones. Creating a massive change to an entire competitive environment isn't healthy, it should only be modified slowly and surely.
It's going to change, of course. Metagames change, regardless of whether or not it seems like it. The question is, is it going fast enough for that to be interesting? And honestly, that's... not the case, regardless of if you think that's a good or bad thing. It's very much slightly nudging on its own, meaning a lot of 6s is based on execution.
It's difficult to argue for changes, because it seems like people believe that to have the chance of causing complete anarchy, kicked dogs and crying children, but yeah, I wouldn't mind some changes. But only small ones. Creating a massive change to an entire competitive environment isn't healthy, it should only be modified slowly and surely.
Why do we have these discussions at the beginning of every season? We end up being so positive for the first week or two then everyone starts calling each other out and drama boils over, teams die, people "quit and "retire", new teams form, people come back, and repeat. If people really care, stop giving up after a week. More people need to put in effort, Enigma and the tftv crew cant do it all alone.
Why do we have these discussions at the beginning of every season? We end up being so positive for the first week or two then everyone starts calling each other out and drama boils over, teams die, people "quit and "retire", new teams form, people come back, and repeat. If people really care, stop giving up after a week. More people need to put in effort, Enigma and the tftv crew cant do it all alone.
Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
As someone that has held both dota and tf2 near and dear since they came out, Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
As someone that can appreciate "microscopic meta-game shifts" in either game, Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
As someone ancient enough to remember all the stupid broken shit each game has gone through to get where it is now, Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
If you think TF2 has gotten stale you haven't been paying attention, this is the first season in how long? ever? that we've had the same map rotation as last. Roles and how players choose to define those roles change from map to map, season to season, and player to player. Just because there's no superficial change between games like hero selection (ostensibly constantly equated to class selection which is wrong on so many fronts) doesn't mean that the game is stale at all.
Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
As someone that has held both dota and tf2 near and dear since they came out, Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
As someone that can appreciate "microscopic meta-game shifts" in either game, Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
As someone ancient enough to remember all the stupid broken shit each game has gone through to get where it is now, Robin Walker is talking out of his ass.
If you think TF2 has gotten stale you haven't been paying attention, this is the first season in how long? ever? that we've had the same map rotation as last. Roles and how players choose to define those roles change from map to map, season to season, and player to player. Just because there's no superficial change between games like hero selection (ostensibly constantly equated to class selection which is wrong on so many fronts) doesn't mean that the game is stale at all.
june, the only person on this entire forum not afraid to get -fragged
june, the only person on this entire forum not afraid to get -fragged
droughtjune, the only person on this entire forum not afraid to get -fragged
Who gives a fuck if you get minus fragged. it's just a bandwagon of people who get mad when you state your opinion they dont like.
[quote=drought]june, the only person on this entire forum not afraid to get -fragged[/quote]
Who gives a fuck if you get minus fragged. it's just a bandwagon of people who get mad when you state your opinion they dont like.
Or you just need to be told you're an idiot in a passive-aggressive way. Interpretation is up to the victim.
Or you just need to be told you're an idiot in a passive-aggressive way. Interpretation is up to the victim.
droughtjune, the only person on this entire forum not afraid to get -fragged
every morning I make sure to post something controversial so I can have a bowl of -frags for breakfast
[quote=drought]june, the only person on this entire forum not afraid to get -fragged[/quote]
every morning I make sure to post something controversial so I can have a bowl of -frags for breakfast
something that popped into my head
if valve says they don't want to take a venture in this game without knowing it will make them a profit, they're being two faced as hell
think of all the dumb experimentation they've done to this game, all the questionable shit that's been thrown in and has failed or flourished. they've made additions not knowing how they'd be received before, why not now?
something that popped into my head
if valve says they don't want to take a venture in this game without knowing it will make them a profit, they're being two faced as hell
think of all the dumb experimentation they've done to this game, all the questionable shit that's been thrown in and has failed or flourished. they've made additions not knowing how they'd be received before, why not now?
I don't actually understand all the focus on meta-game changes. I mean, how quickly does the meta-game change in football? And that has lots of viewers.
I don't actually understand all the focus on meta-game changes. I mean, how quickly does the meta-game change in football? And that has lots of viewers.
brahsomething that popped into my head
if valve says they don't want to take a venture in this game without knowing it will make them a profit, they're being two faced as hell
they sure as hell have already ventured into this game and made a ton of money from it (f2p & microtransactions, sales from the game before f2p, etc). plus i'm pretty sure they get paid a bit from developers for having their games on steam. whether or not this works out isn't going to make them lose out on money.
TristanI don't actually understand all the focus on meta-game changes. I mean, how quickly does the meta-game change in football? And that has lots of viewers.
football also has been growing for decades and has been able to get to where it is today with a ton of improvements. with as much competition there is (basketball, hockey, soccer, etc) it's done a really good job. football has been able to make itself a sport where it attracts a lot of viewers and can keep up with other major sports.
with the tf2 community, the majority of them don't play competitively, though usually having an opinion on it. most of them would feel more comfortable with a competitive scene that fits more closely to the way they've been experiencing the game. that's where highlander comes in. if the 6s community didn't want to gain more respect and a bigger player base and audience, we'd probably still be the same we were 3 years ago. but we're not, because we're constantly trying to apply improvements. the difference this time around is the improvement we're trying to apply is much bigger in scale than anything we've done before.
[quote=brah]something that popped into my head
if valve says they don't want to take a venture in this game without knowing it will make them a profit, they're being two faced as hell[/quote]
they sure as hell have already ventured into this game and made a ton of money from it (f2p & microtransactions, sales from the game before f2p, etc). plus i'm pretty sure they get paid a bit from developers for having their games on steam. whether or not this works out isn't going to make them lose out on money.
[quote=Tristan]I don't actually understand all the focus on meta-game changes. I mean, how quickly does the meta-game change in football? And that has lots of viewers.[/quote]
football also has been growing for decades and has been able to get to where it is today with a ton of improvements. with as much competition there is (basketball, hockey, soccer, etc) it's done a really good job. football has been able to make itself a sport where it attracts a lot of viewers and can keep up with other major sports.
with the tf2 community, the majority of them don't play competitively, though usually having an opinion on it. most of them would feel more comfortable with a competitive scene that fits more closely to the way they've been experiencing the game. that's where highlander comes in. if the 6s community didn't want to gain more respect and a bigger player base and audience, we'd probably still be the same we were 3 years ago. but we're not, because we're constantly trying to apply improvements. the difference this time around is the improvement we're trying to apply is much bigger in scale than anything we've done before.