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Who does not use Iron Bomber
1
#1
0 Frags +

...in prem/invite?

I've looked briefly at prem demos logs and couldnt find stock grenade launcher use. People must think with good reason it's the best grenade launcher, due to the rollers rewarding a miss.

Last time a demo item was banned, it was the booties, as not running them put one at a direct hp disadvantage. I say not having rollers that act like spammed stickies in choke points is also a direct disadvantage. Can you name areas where pipe spam is better than IB spam?

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I can think of badlands mid, maybe granary mid, and that's it

The loose cannon, which also somewhat rewards misses, has at least the big drawback of doing only 50 per shot. Sure it can double donk (131 damage, extremely random, big variance in set up time for the donk), but iron bomber kills where the first pipe misses, the second hits + the roller explodes for 130/150 damage are common, especially in chokes.

Can it be said that IB improves the game the same way other "mandatory" unlocks do(gunboats, ubersaw, xbow(no xbow rant pls), bbasher)?

Any opinions?

...in prem/invite?

I've looked briefly at prem demos logs and couldnt find stock grenade launcher use. People must think with good reason it's the best grenade launcher, due to the rollers rewarding a miss.

Last time a demo item was banned, it was the booties, as not running them put one at a direct hp disadvantage. I say not having rollers that act like spammed stickies in choke points is also a direct disadvantage. Can you name areas where pipe spam is better than IB spam? [spoiler]I can think of badlands mid, maybe granary mid, and that's it[/spoiler]

The loose cannon, which also somewhat rewards misses, has at least the big drawback of doing only 50 per shot. Sure it can double donk (131 damage, extremely random, big variance in set up time for the donk), but iron bomber kills where the first pipe misses, the second hits + the roller explodes for 130/150 damage are common, especially in chokes.

Can it be said that IB improves the game the same way other "mandatory" unlocks do(gunboats, ubersaw, xbow(no xbow rant pls), bbasher)?

Any opinions?
2
#2
45 Frags +

everyone uses IB cuz enemy cant see projectiles flying in their faces

everyone uses IB cuz enemy cant see projectiles flying in their faces
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#3
2 Frags +

spamming rollers down product where it hits back of cliff/ bottom of cliff is extremely good
badlands you can hit pipes over roofs at choke and over the house
granary you can spam rollers into garage window to hit everyone in courtyard

unfortunately all the interesting angles are not as good as spamming into pocket on product

spamming rollers down product where it hits back of cliff/ bottom of cliff is extremely good
badlands you can hit pipes over roofs at choke and over the house
granary you can spam rollers into garage window to hit everyone in courtyard

unfortunately all the interesting angles are not as good as spamming into pocket on product
4
#4
32 Frags +

Jaguarfiend does not use the iron bomber.

Jaguarfiend does not use the iron bomber.
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#5
-6 Frags +

its a direct upgrade to stock with a more consistent projectile hitbox so of course you'd be hard pressed to find a demo who doesnt run it

its a direct upgrade to stock with a more consistent projectile hitbox so of course you'd be hard pressed to find a demo who doesnt run it
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#6
21 Frags +

IB is literally a free damage increase, no reason not to run it.

IB is literally a free damage increase, no reason not to run it.
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#7
-9 Frags +

Didn't kaidus use stock when everyone used iron bomber?

Didn't kaidus use stock when everyone used iron bomber?
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#8
8 Frags +
VisDidn't kaidus use stock when everyone used iron bomber?

he did and then switched to IB at i61, and perhaps earlier

Aptits a direct upgrade to stock with a more consistent projectile hitbox so of course you'd be hard pressed to find a demo who doesnt run it

I'm out of the loop about the hitbox thing, what's the deal?

[quote=Vis]Didn't kaidus use stock when everyone used iron bomber?[/quote]
he did and then switched to IB at i61, and perhaps earlier

[quote=Apt]its a direct upgrade to stock with a more consistent projectile hitbox so of course you'd be hard pressed to find a demo who doesnt run it[/quote]
I'm out of the loop about the hitbox thing, what's the deal?
9
#9
14 Frags +

smaller projectile with the same hitbox size as the stock pipes, basically 4 extra stickies, enemies cant see them.
Every decent to good demoman ive ever spoken to has said its a direct upgrade

smaller projectile with the same hitbox size as the stock pipes, basically 4 extra stickies, enemies cant see them.
Every decent to good demoman ive ever spoken to has said its a direct upgrade
10
#10
-12 Frags +
TwiggyI'm out of the loop about the hitbox thing, what's the deal?

stock projectile hitbox is a rectangle, iron bomber projectile hitbox is a cube

[quote=Twiggy]
I'm out of the loop about the hitbox thing, what's the deal?[/quote]
stock projectile hitbox is a rectangle, iron bomber projectile hitbox is a cube
11
#11
4 Frags +

consistent projectile speed and rollers are not completely random

consistent projectile speed and rollers are not completely random
12
#12
-1 Frags +
AptTwiggyI'm out of the loop about the hitbox thing, what's the deal?stock projectile hitbox is a rectangle, iron bomber projectile hitbox is a cube

which would normally make stock a upgrade if it were not for source aerodynamic calculations and tumble

[quote=Apt][quote=Twiggy]
I'm out of the loop about the hitbox thing, what's the deal?[/quote]
stock projectile hitbox is a rectangle, iron bomber projectile hitbox is a cube[/quote]

which would normally make stock a upgrade if it were not for source aerodynamic calculations and tumble
13
#13
9 Frags +

Before people get into theorycrafting about grenades having a 'more inconsistent projectile path because of tumble'. Here's a quote from the sigsegv video that everyone got that information from:

"Somewhat surprisingly, there is little difference between stock and the Iron Bomber despite the latter having roughly spherical projectiles instead of pill-shaped ones".

The rollers are the reason people use it.

Before people get into theorycrafting about grenades having a 'more inconsistent projectile path because of tumble'. Here's a quote from the sigsegv video that everyone got that information from:

"Somewhat surprisingly, there is little difference between stock and the Iron Bomber despite the latter having roughly spherical projectiles instead of pill-shaped ones".

The rollers are the reason people use it.
14
#14
13 Frags +
ZestyBefore people get into theorycrafting about grenades having a 'more inconsistent projectile path because of tumble'. Here's a quote from the sigsegv video that everyone got that information from:

"Somewhat surprisingly, there is little difference between stock and the Iron Bomber despite the latter having roughly spherical projectiles instead of pill-shaped ones".

The rollers are the reason people use it.

that, and the fact that they're visually harder to see in the air and therefore oftentimes harder to dodge

[quote=Zesty]Before people get into theorycrafting about grenades having a 'more inconsistent projectile path because of tumble'. Here's a quote from the sigsegv video that everyone got that information from:

"Somewhat surprisingly, there is little difference between stock and the Iron Bomber despite the latter having roughly spherical projectiles instead of pill-shaped ones".

The rollers are the reason people use it.[/quote]

that, and the fact that they're visually harder to see in the air and therefore oftentimes harder to dodge
15
#15
2 Frags +

I literally cannot use stock anymore because my mind convinces me I hit more pipes with iron bomber

I literally cannot use stock anymore because my mind convinces me I hit more pipes with iron bomber
16
#16
2 Frags +

Probably more just out of force of habit and preference but I know dingo liked to use stock grenades (jarrett i remember liked it better with rollers on some maps iirc)

Probably more just out of force of habit and preference but I know dingo liked to use stock grenades (jarrett i remember liked it better with rollers on some maps iirc)
17
#17
6 Frags +

I just feel like I hit more pipes with it, may be air resistance or the projectile being harder to dodge.

I just feel like I hit more pipes with it, may be air resistance or the projectile being harder to dodge.
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#18
24 Frags +

i use it because i like the sound

i use it because i like the sound
19
#19
9 Frags +
ZestyBefore people get into theorycrafting about grenades having a 'more inconsistent projectile path because of tumble'. Here's a quote from the sigsegv video that everyone got that information from:

"Somewhat surprisingly, there is little difference between stock and the Iron Bomber despite the latter having roughly spherical projectiles instead of pill-shaped ones".

The rollers are the reason people use it.

It's definitely a little bit of everything, but I have a feeling you're missunderstanding sigsegv. The Iron Bomber and Grenade Launcher on average go the same distance before exploding (assuming they never touch the ground) and go the same speed, BUT Iron Bomber variates a LOT less and you can see it in that video. The maximum distance the ironbomber goes is less the minimum distance is higher, the amount the ironbomber deviates from center either left or right is also lower now it's not by a whole lot but it still matters.

Combine the lower variation in the iron bomber with less roll giving demomen better ability to deny a specific area that isn't directly next to a wall and have a shorter fuse making timing WAY easier and it becomes a distinctly better choice. It's just icing on the cake that the iron bomber projectile overall is just way darker than the stock projectile so it's harder to see if you're looking directly at a demo or dark back grounds. I'm also pretty sure that the Iron Bomber fire animation is way less noticeable than the stock grenade launcher.

[quote=Zesty]Before people get into theorycrafting about grenades having a 'more inconsistent projectile path because of tumble'. Here's a quote from the sigsegv video that everyone got that information from:

"Somewhat surprisingly, there is little difference between stock and the Iron Bomber despite the latter having roughly spherical projectiles instead of pill-shaped ones".

The rollers are the reason people use it.[/quote]

It's definitely a little bit of everything, but I have a feeling you're missunderstanding sigsegv. The Iron Bomber and Grenade Launcher on average go the same distance before exploding (assuming they never touch the ground) and go the same speed, BUT Iron Bomber variates a LOT less and you can see it in that video. The maximum distance the ironbomber goes is less the minimum distance is higher, the amount the ironbomber deviates from center either left or right is also lower now it's not by a whole lot but it still matters.

Combine the lower variation in the iron bomber with less roll giving demomen better ability to deny a specific area that isn't directly next to a wall and have a shorter fuse making timing WAY easier and it becomes a distinctly better choice. It's just icing on the cake that the iron bomber projectile overall is just way darker than the stock projectile so it's harder to see if you're looking directly at a demo or dark back grounds. I'm also pretty sure that the Iron Bomber fire animation is way less noticeable than the stock grenade launcher.
20
#20
26 Frags +

mak is probably typing up his essay as we speak

mak is probably typing up his essay as we speak
21
#21
4 Frags +

I used the grenade launcher because I felt little satisfaction in hitting directs and rollers with the IB. I'm not saying I'm a god on demo, but most of the time when I got kills with the IB, it felt like they were just given to me, rather than me putting some skill or effort into it and they almost felt undeserved. Sure, this happens with the grenadelauncher sometimes, but a lot less than with the Iron bomber.

This is probably just me being old fashioned as well and loving GL pipes like they've always been.

I used the grenade launcher because I felt little satisfaction in hitting directs and rollers with the IB. I'm not saying I'm a god on demo, but most of the time when I got kills with the IB, it felt like they were just given to me, rather than me putting some skill or effort into it and they almost felt undeserved. Sure, this happens with the grenadelauncher sometimes, but a lot less than with the Iron bomber.

This is probably just me being old fashioned as well and loving GL pipes like they've always been.
22
#22
21 Frags +

explain this. https://streamable.com/rx3u2
(to replicate this, either restore or put name/desc/killstreak kit on ironbomber while outside of spawn)

explain this. https://streamable.com/rx3u2
(to replicate this, either restore or put name/desc/killstreak kit on ironbomber while outside of spawn)
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#23
-2 Frags +

Indecency doesn't use it, but idk why

Also, loose cannon is scary good when you practice using it in different ranges.

Indecency doesn't use it, but idk why

Also, loose cannon is scary good when you practice using it in different ranges.
24
#24
-1 Frags +
hamahamexplain this. https://streamable.com/rx3u2

the item card reduces rolling more than the shape

[quote=hamaham]explain this. https://streamable.com/rx3u2[/quote]
the item card reduces rolling more than the shape
25
#25
18 Frags +

I remember ratslayer using stock in like every match of the nations cup

I remember ratslayer using stock in like every match of the nations cup
26
#26
1 Frags +

Iron bomber is worse on sunshine imo. Arcing pipes is powerful on that map.

Also loch n load is underrated, more people should use it. Really nutty weapon, especially on product or gully mids.

Iron bomber is worse on sunshine imo. Arcing pipes is powerful on that map.

Also loch n load is underrated, more people should use it. Really nutty weapon, especially on product or gully mids.
27
#27
2 Frags +
hamahamexplain this. https://streamable.com/rx3u2
(to replicate this, either restore or put name/desc/killstreak kit on ironbomber while outside of spawn)

has anyone tested whether the projectile arc behaves more like iron bomber or pipes with that? i'd wager the former, and it literally doesn't matter in practice but it'd be interesting to know

Twiggy...the booties, as not running them put one at a direct hp disadvantage.

not strictly true, as the booties currently ONLY have that hp bonus (unless you equip a shield) and they're completely unused

[quote=hamaham]explain this. https://streamable.com/rx3u2
(to replicate this, either restore or put name/desc/killstreak kit on ironbomber while outside of spawn)[/quote]

has anyone tested whether the projectile arc behaves more like iron bomber or pipes with that? i'd wager the former, and it literally doesn't matter in practice but it'd be interesting to know

[quote=Twiggy]...the booties, as not running them put one at a direct hp disadvantage.[/quote]

not strictly true, as the booties currently ONLY have that hp bonus (unless you equip a shield) and they're completely unused
28
#28
-2 Frags +
iodineIndecency doesn't use it, but idk why

Also, loose cannon is scary good when you practice using it in different ranges.

complete preference to use stock and iron bomber imo

plus everyone seems to not be able to form their own opinion or their own mind and just regurgitate whatever invite players and people high up think and magically think stock somehow is worse than iron bomber, dunno where that came from, theres been so many times i can just tell from people's tone of voice that im a disadvantage just for even using stock but they dont say it

[quote=iodine]Indecency doesn't use it, but idk why

Also, loose cannon is scary good when you practice using it in different ranges.[/quote]

complete preference to use stock and iron bomber imo

plus everyone seems to not be able to form their own opinion or their own mind and just regurgitate whatever invite players and people high up think and magically think stock somehow is worse than iron bomber, dunno where that came from, theres been so many times i can just tell from people's tone of voice that im a disadvantage just for even using stock but they dont say it
29
#29
6 Frags +

dosnt Eemes use loch & load on some maps?

dosnt Eemes use loch & load on some maps?
30
#30
2 Frags +

Since I have an australium I stopped using the iron bomber so often

Since I have an australium I stopped using the iron bomber so often
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