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its back
121
#121
1 Frags +
Daffodil-gemmaren't the mantreads still majorly bugged?

equip them then equip the gunboats and you still have godlike air accel. that's a pretty serious bug that limits how they can be used and they should be banned for it imo.
I am not sure where this rumor came from but I am pretty sure it has never been like that ever. I have used the weapon quite a bit and am decently comfortable in saying if this was ever a bug its not present anymore

it was most definitely possible and i think it still may be possible, i think it may actually be possible still. i will test in a minute

edit: after testing for like 30 minutes i was unable to replicate it. maybe someone else can but from what i have been able to find it seems to have been patched

[quote=Daffodil-][quote=gemm]aren't the mantreads still majorly bugged?

equip them then equip the gunboats and you still have godlike air accel. that's a pretty serious bug that limits how they can be used and they should be banned for it imo.[/quote]
I am not sure where this rumor came from but I am pretty sure it has never been like that ever. I have used the weapon quite a bit and am decently comfortable in saying if this was ever a bug its not present anymore[/quote]
it was most definitely possible and i think it still may be possible, i think it may actually be possible still. i will test in a minute

edit: after testing for like 30 minutes i was unable to replicate it. maybe someone else can but from what i have been able to find it seems to have been patched
122
#122
-9 Frags +

Legitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.

Legitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.
123
#123
42 Frags +
FUNKeLegitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.

I can't speak for others but when I'm thinking about weapon bans, Valve's balance is literally irrelevant to me. I don't see any evidence that unbanning and then complaining about weapons actually speeds up development time, particularly with weapons that are not remotely OP in pubs like the cow mangler. The other argument for doing so would be the whole show-Valve-we're-willing-to-work-with-them for potential benefits down the line, but I find that really spurious. I'm not expecting us to be an esport all of a sudden because we whitelist 1 more weapon, so I'm just gonna make my judgement based on how weapons affect the competitive experience at this very moment.

[quote=FUNKe]Legitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.[/quote]

I can't speak for others but when I'm thinking about weapon bans, Valve's balance is literally irrelevant to me. I don't see any evidence that unbanning and then complaining about weapons actually speeds up development time, particularly with weapons that are not remotely OP in pubs like the cow mangler. The other argument for doing so would be the whole show-Valve-we're-willing-to-work-with-them for potential benefits down the line, but I find that really spurious. I'm not expecting us to be an esport all of a sudden because we whitelist 1 more weapon, so I'm just gonna make my judgement based on how weapons affect the competitive experience at this very moment.
124
#124
19 Frags +
FUNKeLegitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve?

the answer to that question is yes. although we are due for another major update sometime soon™ and I’m sure it’s on the list for balancing because it’s been banned for the past 9? months. (After s26?)

[quote=FUNKe]Legitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve?[/quote]
the answer to that question is yes. although we are due for another major update sometime soon™ and I’m sure it’s on the list for balancing because it’s been banned for the past 9? months. (After s26?)
125
#125
-3 Frags +
Daffodil-ReeroLike seriously though this isn't blind hate or circlejerking against change or whatever
Are you reading the same thread as me? Literally look at this other post I quoted. There are people with well reasoned arguments such as yourself but the general consensus is "ew dumb and broken weapons get it AWAY from me" while seeming to forget that what everyone is talking about was allowed and hardly affected the game for an entire season+
terabytewe can't remove old and outdated maps from the map pool there's no time left in the off season sorry guys, next season

but we've unbanned all these broken weapons without announcing a meeting had taken place or that the decision had been made. have fun!

These were the unbanned weapons:
Pocket Pistol
Atomizer
Cow Mangler
Mantreads
Dragon's Fury
Gas Passer

Let's run through the list

Pocket Pistol:
Nerfed, at best you can regen 27 hp if you hit an entire clip. It hardly matters and nobody saw a real reason for it to be banned anymore. Inconsequential.

Atomizer:
It has to be fully deployed to give you a third jump (quick switch script patched). Anywhere a scout can triple jump to is someplace scouts could already have gotten to with the winger or basher anyways.

Cow Mangler:
Infinite Reserve ammo, Trade clip for a mini crit rocket that applies afterburn, -90% damage to sentries. Most arguments about it tend towards the side of "ammo management is a skillful and important mechanic" or that charge shots somehow broke the game which is honestly astounding to me because I saw no functional difference between s26 and post-ban. It is by far the most controversial change but it doesn't even get near "gamebreaking" status like some other weapons would (ex: vaccinator or base jumper)

Mantreads:
Actual interesting side grade, this weapon has been long past due for seeing usage

Dragon's Fury:
Not a great weapon for what pyros are used for in 6s

Gas Passer:
Inconsequential

I haven"t been around long enough to see it. How is the Base Jumper OP/banned?

[quote=Daffodil-][quote=Reero]Like seriously though this isn't blind hate or circlejerking against change or whatever[/quote]

Are you reading the same thread as me? Literally look at this other post I quoted. There are people with well reasoned arguments such as yourself but the general consensus is "ew dumb and [i]broken[/i] weapons get it [u]AWAY[/u] from me" while seeming to forget that what everyone is talking about was allowed and hardly affected the game for an entire season+

[quote=terabyte]we can't remove old and outdated maps from the map pool there's no time left in the off season sorry guys, next season

but we've unbanned all these broken weapons without announcing a meeting had taken place or that the decision had been made. have fun![/quote]

These were the unbanned weapons:
Pocket Pistol
Atomizer
Cow Mangler
Mantreads
Dragon's Fury
Gas Passer

Let's run through the list

Pocket Pistol:
Nerfed, at best you can regen 27 hp if you hit an entire clip. It hardly matters and nobody saw a real reason for it to be banned anymore. Inconsequential.

Atomizer:
It has to be fully deployed to give you a third jump (quick switch script patched). Anywhere a scout can triple jump to is someplace scouts could already have gotten to with the winger or basher anyways.

Cow Mangler:
Infinite Reserve ammo, Trade clip for a mini crit rocket that applies afterburn, -90% damage to sentries. Most arguments about it tend towards the side of "ammo management is a skillful and important mechanic" or that charge shots somehow broke the game which is honestly astounding to me because I saw no functional difference between s26 and post-ban. It is by far the most controversial change but it doesn't even get near "gamebreaking" status like some other weapons would (ex: vaccinator or base jumper)

Mantreads:
Actual interesting side grade, this weapon has been long past due for seeing usage

Dragon's Fury:
Not a great weapon for what pyros are used for in 6s

Gas Passer:
Inconsequential[/quote]
I haven"t been around long enough to see it. How is the Base Jumper OP/banned?
126
#126
-1 Frags +
kaiserRegI haven"t been around long enough to see it. How is the Base Jumper OP/banned?

It used to have insane control in the air. You could literally keep all your forward momentum after jumping and deploying the parachute. And as most people here know, air control in tf2 is preeeetty good. It has since been nerfed, but it's still pretty good at making you harder to hit, and can make some bombs really difficult to counter, and possibly splits the attention of the people on the other team if you just jump in and float above them.

[quote=kaiserReg]
I haven"t been around long enough to see it. How is the Base Jumper OP/banned?[/quote]

It used to have insane control in the air. You could literally keep all your forward momentum after jumping and deploying the parachute. And as most people here know, air control in tf2 is preeeetty good. It has since been nerfed, but it's still pretty good at making you harder to hit, and can make some bombs really difficult to counter, and possibly splits the attention of the people on the other team if you just jump in and float above them.
127
#127
8 Frags +
FUNKeLegitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.

there has already been plenty of good constructive feedback in this thread and when it was unbanned/rebanned the last time, and i'd rather not sacrifice my enjoyment or the level of competition just so the game can be the same as it is now but with the cowmangler in it

[quote=FUNKe]Legitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.[/quote]
there has already been plenty of good constructive feedback in this thread and when it was unbanned/rebanned the last time, and i'd rather not sacrifice my enjoyment or the level of competition just so the game can be the same as it is now but with the cowmangler in it
128
#128
2 Frags +
FUNKeLegitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.

I'm legitimately curious why you would think people would be happy to see a weapon that was banned previously and it's only change since then was to allow for mini-crits while being kritzkrieg'd and I think the afterburn rework was after this point as well but that's not nearly as important. Literally all the criticism for the Cow Mangler from S25 and 26? is still the same.

[quote=FUNKe]Legitimately curious, would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? We all know valve will takes months (nay, years) to change it regardless of if it's whitelisted, but at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive for valve to step on the gas with it- whereas before rebalancing the weapon might not have been high on the to-do list.[/quote]

I'm legitimately curious why you would think people would be happy to see a weapon that was banned previously and it's only change since then was to allow for mini-crits while being kritzkrieg'd and I think the afterburn rework was after this point as well but that's not nearly as important. Literally all the criticism for the Cow Mangler from S25 and 26? is still the same.
129
#129
1 Frags +
ComangliaI'm legitimately curious why you would think people would be happy to see a weapon that was banned previously and it's only change since then was to allow for mini-crits while being kritzkrieg'd and I think the afterburn rework was after this point as well but that's not nearly as important. Literally all the criticism for the Cow Mangler from S25 and 26? is still the same.

I never said people would be happy. I wanted to hear peoples perspective on unbanning for 'progress' vs remaining banned for balance. I'm well aware of the general consensus. I specifically made a point in my post about how people dislike its current state.

[quote=Comanglia]I'm legitimately curious why you would think people would be happy to see a weapon that was banned previously and it's only change since then was to allow for mini-crits while being kritzkrieg'd and I think the afterburn rework was after this point as well but that's not nearly as important. Literally all the criticism for the Cow Mangler from S25 and 26? is still the same.[/quote]

I never said people would be happy. I wanted to hear peoples perspective on unbanning for 'progress' vs remaining banned for balance. I'm well aware of the general consensus. I specifically made a point in my post about how people dislike its current state.
130
#130
26 Frags +

I scrimed for the first time tonight after the mangler unban. Fuck that weapon lmao.

I scrimed for the first time tonight after the mangler unban. Fuck that weapon lmao.
131
#131
18 Frags +
FUNKeI never said people would be happy. I wanted to hear peoples perspective on unbanning for 'progress' vs remaining banned for balance. I'm well aware of the general consensus. I specifically made a point in my post about how people dislike its current state.

If "unbanning for progress" implies that we are aware the weapon may be unbalanced, then it is of the utmost idiocy to unban for a full season of ESEA, where prize money is involved and teams are taking things seriously. "Unbanning for progress" should be done in a testing environment where nothing is at stake.

[quote=FUNKe]I never said people would be happy. I wanted to hear peoples perspective on unbanning for 'progress' vs remaining banned for balance. I'm well aware of the general consensus. I specifically made a point in my post about how people dislike its current state.[/quote]

If "unbanning for progress" implies that we are aware the weapon may be unbalanced, then it is of the utmost idiocy to unban for a full season of ESEA, where prize money is involved and teams are taking things seriously. "Unbanning for progress" should be done in a testing environment where nothing is at stake.
132
#132
20 Frags +
FUNKeunbanning for 'progress'

what progress? the fictional valve mayor?

honestly i am sick of seeing this meme of "if all is unbanned everything will magically be better".
if valve wants the Cow Mangler to be unbanned they should come out and say it themselves rather than have people with some kind of prophet complex say what should be done.

[quote=FUNKe]
unbanning for 'progress'[/quote]
what progress? the fictional valve mayor?

honestly i am sick of seeing this meme of "if all is unbanned everything will magically be better".
if valve wants the Cow Mangler to be unbanned they should come out and say it themselves rather than have people with some kind of prophet complex say what should be done.
133
#133
7 Frags +
FUNKeComangliaI'm legitimately curious why you would think people would be happy to see a weapon that was banned previously and it's only change since then was to allow for mini-crits while being kritzkrieg'd and I think the afterburn rework was after this point as well but that's not nearly as important. Literally all the criticism for the Cow Mangler from S25 and 26? is still the same.
I never said people would be happy. I wanted to hear peoples perspective on unbanning for 'progress' vs remaining banned for balance. I'm well aware of the general consensus. I specifically made a point in my post about how people dislike its current state.

You're right I should've worded this better, I did a really poor job of conveying my point.

FUNKe-snip- would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? -snip-

Yes

FUNKeat least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive

Already has been done and they buffed it. I mean is there a more direct way for valve to say fuck you to our opinion on the cow mangler than that?

Don't get me wrong I don't think any of the weapons in the game should be banned, but that's on valve to balance the weapons in a way people can have fun and viably use/play against all the weapons.

[quote=FUNKe][quote=Comanglia]I'm legitimately curious why you would think people would be happy to see a weapon that was banned previously and it's only change since then was to allow for mini-crits while being kritzkrieg'd and I think the afterburn rework was after this point as well but that's not nearly as important. Literally all the criticism for the Cow Mangler from S25 and 26? is still the same.[/quote]

I never said people would be happy. I wanted to hear peoples perspective on unbanning for 'progress' vs remaining banned for balance. I'm well aware of the general consensus. I specifically made a point in my post about how people dislike its current state.[/quote]

You're right I should've worded this better, I did a really poor job of conveying my point.

[quote=FUNKe]-snip- would those anti-cowmangler prefer it remain banned forever for the remainder of time until it is adjusted by valve? -snip-[/quote]

Yes

[quote=FUNKe]at least by having it whitelisted, you can channel that anger of the weapon's balance into constructive incentive[/quote]

Already has been done and they buffed it. I mean is there a more direct way for valve to say fuck you to our opinion on the cow mangler than that?

Don't get me wrong I don't think any of the weapons in the game [i]should[/i] be banned, but that's on valve to balance the weapons in a way people can have fun and viably use/play against all the weapons.
134
#134
47 Frags +

the perfect whitelist doesnt exi-
https://whitelist.tf/9333

the perfect whitelist doesnt exi-
https://whitelist.tf/9333
135
#135
1 Frags +

i can right click scouts again

i can right click scouts again
136
#136
3 Frags +

ban the iron bomber and crossbow thanks

ban the iron bomber and crossbow thanks
137
#137
3 Frags +

finally, i can run engi to mid

finally, i can run engi to mid
138
#138
12 Frags +

Tbh the cow mangler is a straight downgrade because I don’t think my sanity will be able to survive another whole season of PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW

Tbh the cow mangler is a straight downgrade because I don’t think my sanity will be able to survive another whole season of PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW
139
#139
10 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h108lHf2Y74

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h108lHf2Y74[/youtube]
140
#140
0 Frags +
DrWubsfinally, i can run engi to mid

if you engi to mid i run heavy and you place a dispenser immediately

cant lose a mid if you cant leave a mid

[quote=DrWubs]finally, i can run engi to mid[/quote]
if you engi to mid i run heavy and you place a dispenser immediately

cant lose a mid if you cant leave a mid
141
#141
1 Frags +

https://clips.twitch.tv/OddSeductiveMarjoram

e: shit it got deleted

a demo got chipped with a long distance charge shot spam where neither player saw each other and went from 120 to 0

https://clips.twitch.tv/OddSeductiveMarjoram

e: shit it got deleted

a demo got chipped with a long distance charge shot spam where neither player saw each other and went from 120 to 0
142
#142
13 Frags +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYVChuxu0ew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYVChuxu0ew
143
#143
0 Frags +

getting a 125 crossmap fireball on a medic makes me feel better for losing a fight to some out of position schmuck because he got a 150 heal from across the map

i will always support the manglio as long as the crossbow is around

getting a 125 crossmap fireball on a medic makes me feel better for losing a fight to some out of position schmuck because he got a 150 heal from across the map

i will always support the manglio as long as the crossbow is around
144
#144
27 Frags +

http://i.imgur.com/zQO5Adj.jpg

[img]http://i.imgur.com/zQO5Adj.jpg[/img]
145
#145
2 Frags +

I don’t even have a cow mangler wtf

I don’t even have a cow mangler wtf
146
#146
8 Frags +

https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousOddWalletRaccAttack

https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousOddWalletRaccAttack
147
#147
10 Frags +

ban laser gun 2018

ban laser gun 2018
148
#148
-1 Frags +

.

.
149
#149
1 Frags +
botmodeban laser gun 2018
[quote=botmode]ban laser gun 2018[/quote]
150
#150
6 Frags +
zandahttps://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousOddWalletRaccAttack

only bad unaware players get hit by the charge shot

[quote=zanda]https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousOddWalletRaccAttack[/quote]

only bad unaware players get hit by the charge shot
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