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prograde LFT pocket high open/low-mid IM S27
61
#61
12 Frags +

If you can't keep even a few players between seasons, leading to roster instability, maybe you as a team leader and/or player are the problem.

If you can't keep even a few players between seasons, leading to roster instability, maybe you as a team leader and/or player are the problem.
62
#62
7 Frags +
phxvyperGrapeJuiceIIIIf you want to take this awful analogy into TF2 let's do it
You think you're around a low-mid IM level
an overwhelming amount of people around or above a low IM level call you mid open.
guess what, you're not low IM.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/256/183/9d5.png

? It's true. if I walk around with 3 seasons of mid open experience I'm not capable of IM. that's just how it is. idk what you're thonking about
edit: unless it's about the analogy in general, then yeah the analogy is garbage

[quote=phxvyper][quote=GrapeJuiceIII]
If you want to take this awful analogy into TF2 let's do it
You think you're around a low-mid IM level
an overwhelming amount of people around or above a low IM level call you mid open.
guess what, you're not low IM.[/quote]

[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/256/183/9d5.png[/img][/quote]
? It's true. if I walk around with 3 seasons of mid open experience I'm not capable of IM. that's just how it is. idk what you're thonking about
edit: unless it's about the analogy in general, then yeah the analogy is garbage
63
#63
-6 Frags +

reading through everyone's experiences with prograde in this thread made me almost not write this but from my limit interactions with him i was really impressed and i see a lot of potential. he's very vocal and has good dm so give him a shot

reading through everyone's experiences with prograde in this thread made me almost not write this but from my limit interactions with him i was really impressed and i see a lot of potential. he's very vocal and has good dm so give him a shot
64
#64
-13 Frags +

goddammit tristen why did you bump this thread...
For the record I'm not looking for a team, I have my own for now and I can't really see myself playing for someone else unless its for something like lan.

GrapeJuiceIII? It's true. if I walk around with 3 seasons of mid open experience I'm not capable of IM. that's just how it is. idk what you're thonking about
edit: unless it's about the analogy in general, then yeah the analogy is garbage

I had a response to the original thing written but I didn't think this thread was worth bumping so I didn't post it. Since it's been bumped anyways, I might as well set this straight. Nerd essay below

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The analogy is garbage because it's logically invalid and not even remotely applicable. If yomps made an LFT thread for top invite and literally everyone on TFTV posted "you're not good enough for top invite," on his thread, that doesn't suddenly make him less than top invite.

What you described is a popularity contest at worse, and a poll to gather the opinions of a group of people on an extremely subjective issue (in this case appearance) at best, which is completely different from what a team leader should be looking for, which are performance records (ideally from different lineups), assessments of relevant skills, trends in reports of negative experiences or problems, and comments on personality and behavior (in order to estimate whether the player will have good chemistry). This data should be collected as empirically as possible, and used to make as objective a decision as possible on whether the qualities of a given player match what you're looking for.
VirgilIf you can't keep even a few players between seasons, leading to roster instability,
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That's assuming I'm not deliberately replacing players when I've come to my own conclusion that a role could be better filled by someone else. This isn't to say that I don't try to retain as many players as possible, it's just a matter of understanding your player's strengths and weaknesses, and recognizing when there's a deep-rooted foundational problem that is impeding a player's growth on your team. The way I see it, if you're consistently having problems with a player, you've done your best to talk with them to fix the issues, and they keep having the same problems throughout the season with no sign of stopping, you would be a terrible leader to keep them on your team.
Virgilmaybe you as a team leader and/or player are the problem.
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This has line of reasoning has been used a million times, and while it's not invalid it's nowhere near accurate. It's an incredibly simple interpretation of an incredibly complex series of events, which almost any of my former teammates could debunk for you in ten seconds. Long story short, some leaders get lucky, they find 5 players who all have similar skill levels, good chemistry, similar long-term goals, are reliable, and they get to stay with those players for a long time. Other leaders aren't so lucky, and every now and then a difficult decision has to be made in a very short period of time.

TL;DR people seem to love black-and-white explanations devoid of all nuance, and that's silly. Ask questions, do your due diligence, don't jump to conclusions, and don't believe the first thing you hear.

After my dumb shitpost towards nazara early on in this thread I've been doing pretty much nothing but replying to people's posts when something is factually inaccurate or misleading, and more than half the time I wouldn't need to even respond if folks did a little more reading or asked around a little more.

goddammit tristen why did you bump this thread...
For the record I'm not looking for a team, I have my own for now and I can't really see myself playing for someone else unless its for something like lan.

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]
? It's true. if I walk around with 3 seasons of mid open experience I'm not capable of IM. that's just how it is. idk what you're thonking about
edit: unless it's about the analogy in general, then yeah the analogy is garbage[/quote]
I had a response to the original thing written but I didn't think this thread was worth bumping so I didn't post it. Since it's been bumped anyways, I might as well set this straight. Nerd essay below

[spoiler]The analogy is garbage because it's logically invalid and not even remotely applicable. If yomps made an LFT thread for top invite and literally everyone on TFTV posted "you're not good enough for top invite," on his thread, that doesn't suddenly make him less than top invite.

What you described is a popularity contest at worse, and a poll to gather the opinions of a group of people on an extremely subjective issue (in this case appearance) at best, which is completely different from what a team leader [i]should[/i] be looking for, which are performance records (ideally from different lineups), assessments of relevant skills, trends in reports of negative experiences or problems, and comments on personality and behavior (in order to estimate whether the player will have good chemistry). This data should be collected as empirically as possible, and used to make as objective a decision as possible on whether the qualities of a given player match what you're looking for. [/spoiler]


[quote=Virgil]If you can't keep even a few players between seasons, leading to roster instability,[/quote]
[spoiler]That's assuming I'm not deliberately replacing players when I've come to my own conclusion that a role could be better filled by someone else. This isn't to say that I don't try to retain as many players as possible, it's just a matter of understanding your player's strengths and weaknesses, and recognizing when there's a deep-rooted foundational problem that is impeding a player's growth on your team. The way I see it, if you're consistently having problems with a player, you've done your best to talk with them to fix the issues, and they keep having the same problems throughout the season with no sign of stopping, you would be a terrible leader to keep them on your team. [/spoiler]

[quote=Virgil]maybe you as a team leader and/or player are the problem.[/quote]
[spoiler]This has line of reasoning has been used a million times, and while it's not invalid it's nowhere near accurate. It's an incredibly simple interpretation of an incredibly complex series of events, which almost any of my former teammates could debunk for you in ten seconds. Long story short, some leaders get lucky, they find 5 players who all have similar skill levels, good chemistry, similar long-term goals, are reliable, and they get to stay with those players for a long time. Other leaders aren't so lucky, and every now and then a difficult decision has to be made in a very short period of time.[/spoiler]

TL;DR people seem to love black-and-white explanations devoid of all nuance, and that's silly. Ask questions, do your due diligence, don't jump to conclusions, and don't believe the first thing you hear.

After my dumb shitpost towards nazara early on in this thread I've been doing pretty much nothing but replying to people's posts when something is factually inaccurate or misleading, and more than half the time I wouldn't need to even respond if folks did a little more reading or asked around a little more.
65
#65
19 Frags +
progradeThe analogy is garbage because it's logically invalid and not even remotely applicable. If yomps made an LFT thread for top invite and literally everyone on TFTV posted "you're not good enough for top invite," on his thread, that doesn't suddenly make him less than top invite.

this is also pretty garbage because unlike u yomps has results, not trying to be mean or anything but you are claiming you are better than your actual skill level based off of ur own opinion and now how you have performed in-game

[quote=prograde]The analogy is garbage because it's logically invalid and not even remotely applicable. If yomps made an LFT thread for top invite and literally everyone on TFTV posted "you're not good enough for top invite," on his thread, that doesn't suddenly make him less than top invite.
[/quote]

this is also pretty garbage because unlike u yomps has results, not trying to be mean or anything but you are claiming you are better than your actual skill level based off of ur own opinion and now how you have performed in-game
66
#66
10 Frags +

the analogy is bad but it at least makes sense. your yomps example makes no sense to compare to your case though because people KNOW that yomps is top invite, he's been there for like 6(?) seasons. even if people didnt like yomps, the fact that yomps is nuts at scout is unavoidable, and they would just say "toxic retard with good dm" if people actually didnt like him. With someone like you or me, we still have to actually prove that we can play at a certain level. If I were to leave my team right now and say "My team causes all of my problems I'm LFT High IM Roamer because my team is holding me back" I would get shit on just as hard as you got shit on in this thread because I just haven't adequately proven that I am a High IM Roamer. In our case it's a popularity contest, when you've been on a top invite team since season 21(?) like yomps then it's no longer a popularity contest, it's just fact that you can perform at a certain level.

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yukarithis is also pretty garbage because unlike u yomps has results, not trying to be mean or anything but you are claiming you are better than your actual skill level based off of ur own opinion and now how you have performed in-gametook me a while to write my wall of text and make sure there weren't any holes and yukari said it first oh well
the analogy is bad but it at least makes sense. your yomps example makes no sense to compare to your case though because people KNOW that yomps is top invite, he's been there for like 6(?) seasons. even if people didnt like yomps, the fact that yomps is nuts at scout is unavoidable, and they would just say "toxic retard with good dm" if people actually didnt like him. With someone like you or me, we still have to actually prove that we can play at a certain level. If I were to leave my team right now and say "My team causes all of my problems I'm LFT High IM Roamer because my team is holding me back" I would get shit on just as hard as you got shit on in this thread because I just haven't adequately proven that I am a High IM Roamer. In our case it's a popularity contest, when you've been on a top invite team since season 21(?) like yomps then it's no longer a popularity contest, it's just fact that you can perform at a certain level.

[spoiler][quote=yukari]
this is also pretty garbage because unlike u yomps has results, not trying to be mean or anything but you are claiming you are better than your actual skill level based off of ur own opinion and now how you have performed in-game[/quote]
took me a while to write my wall of text and make sure there weren't any holes and yukari said it first oh well
[/spoiler]
67
#67
-14 Frags +
yukarithis is also pretty garbage because unlike u yomps has results, not trying to be mean or anything but you are claiming you are better than your actual skill level based off of ur own opinion and now how you have performed in-game

I don't care whether it's nice or mean, I just care about whether it's a fair assessment (which it totally is, I have no accolades remotely comparable to yomps, just a couple tryout periods which I consider to be proofs of concept whereby I can carry my own weight on a competent mid-IM team) and whether it makes sense.

But that's besides the point. Here's a part of that comparison that I decided to not include originally:
Likewise, if I made a LFT top invite thread and literally every person on the face of the earth were to post "yeah prograde is more than capable of playing top invite, put him on _____!" that doesn't suddenly mean I'd be able to be anything other than a dead weight on any invite team, much less a top invite team.

[quote=yukari]
this is also pretty garbage because unlike u yomps has results, not trying to be mean or anything but you are claiming you are better than your actual skill level based off of ur own opinion and now how you have performed in-game[/quote]

I don't care whether it's nice or mean, I just care about whether it's a fair assessment (which it totally is, I have no accolades remotely comparable to yomps, just a couple tryout periods which I consider to be proofs of concept whereby I can carry my own weight on a competent mid-IM team) and whether it makes sense.

But that's besides the point. Here's a part of that comparison that I decided to not include originally:
[i]Likewise, if I made a LFT top invite thread and literally every person on the face of the earth were to post "yeah prograde is more than capable of playing top invite, put him on _____!" that doesn't suddenly mean I'd be able to be anything other than a dead weight on any invite team, much less a top invite team.[/i]
68
#68
9 Frags +
MuddyFudger
TL;DR people seem to love black-and-white explanations devoid of all nuance, and that's silly. Ask questions, do your due diligence, don't jump to conclusions, and don't believe the first thing you hear.

After my dumb shitpost towards nazara early on in this thread I've been doing pretty much nothing but replying to people's posts when something is factually inaccurate or misleading, and more than half the time I wouldn't need to even respond if folks did a little more reading or asked around a little more.

You really like this idea of nuance but I think you're substituting shifting blame for not doing well in open to this idea of "nuance" so you can tell yourself that you're better than you are, at an IM level. Honestly this is more of a symptom of a larger problem with Muddyfudger, that it's hard to tell if he genuinely wants to improve or if he just wants to climb as fast as possible so he can have that claim to being a good player. The latter is bad because you miss out on a lot of good experience that you only get by playing at your own skill level. I remember you said early on "I will be invite in 5 seasons", and joke or not, you're not giving yourself time to genuinely improve. I think mid-high open is genuinely your best bet if you want to improve.

[quote=MuddyFudger]


TL;DR people seem to love black-and-white explanations devoid of all nuance, and that's silly. Ask questions, do your due diligence, don't jump to conclusions, and don't believe the first thing you hear.

After my dumb shitpost towards nazara early on in this thread I've been doing pretty much nothing but replying to people's posts when something is factually inaccurate or misleading, and more than half the time I wouldn't need to even respond if folks did a little more reading or asked around a little more.[/quote]

You really like this idea of nuance but I think you're substituting shifting blame for not doing well in open to this idea of "nuance" so you can tell yourself that you're better than you are, at an IM level. Honestly this is more of a symptom of a larger problem with Muddyfudger, that it's hard to tell if he genuinely wants to improve or if he just wants to climb as fast as possible so he can have that claim to being a good player. The latter is bad because you miss out on a lot of good experience that you only get by playing at your own skill level. I remember you said early on "I will be invite in 5 seasons", and joke or not, you're not giving yourself time to genuinely improve. I think mid-high open is genuinely your best bet if you want to improve.
69
#69
2 Frags +

Wtf guys, stop.

Wtf guys, stop.
70
#70
1 Frags +
GrapeJuiceIII? It's true. if I walk around with 3 seasons of mid open experience I'm not capable of IM. that's just how it is. idk what you're thonking about
edit: unless it's about the analogy in general, then yeah the analogy is garbage

ye it was about the poor analogy. just thought it was funny xd

[quote=GrapeJuiceIII]
? It's true. if I walk around with 3 seasons of mid open experience I'm not capable of IM. that's just how it is. idk what you're thonking about
edit: unless it's about the analogy in general, then yeah the analogy is garbage[/quote]

ye it was about the poor analogy. just thought it was funny xd
71
#71
8 Frags +

what is this thread even anymore

what is this thread even anymore
72
#72
33 Frags +
dishsoapthis is why bronies shouldnt be allowed to have a free will
[quote=dishsoap]this is why bronies shouldnt be allowed to have a free will[/quote]
73
#73
6 Frags +
MuddyFudgerLikewise, if I made a LFT top invite thread and literally every person on the face of the earth were to post "yeah prograde is more than capable of playing top invite, put him on _____!" that doesn't suddenly mean I'd be able to be anything other than a dead weight on any invite team, much less a top invite team.

so whats the difference between this and u saying that ur able to play IM?

[quote=MuddyFudger]
[i]Likewise, if I made a LFT top invite thread and literally every person on the face of the earth were to post "yeah prograde is more than capable of playing top invite, put him on _____!" that doesn't suddenly mean I'd be able to be anything other than a dead weight on any invite team, much less a top invite team.[/i][/quote]
so whats the difference between this and u saying that ur able to play IM?
74
#74
24 Frags +
Segnowhat is this thread even anymore

Guess you could say that we're

Show Content
beating a dead horse
[quote=Segno]what is this thread even anymore[/quote]

Guess you could say that we're

[spoiler][b]beating a dead horse[/b][/spoiler]
75
#75
34 Frags +

If you spent time practicing instead of writing nerd essays nobody reads maybe you would win a match :D

EDIT: I was gonna just shitpost but I read the shit you're saying and I need to say actually things. Muddy, you have been one of the worst players on your team every season. You cut protag and beel (two players much better than you) claiming you had better players to play (also a lie). Regardless of better replacements or not, this type of thinking is awful. If you continue to try and replace everyone around you, you will never develop chemistry as a team which is an integral part in this game. You cut players week two. That's minimal time to actually develop cohesion as a team, and guess what? Now you get to start over. Work with the players you have. If you're a mid IM level player you should be able to help your team easily match you by making mid IM level plays and calls. Furthermore, continuously cutting players and leaving yourself in roster turmoil scares away the type of player that you want to play with. As someone who has lead a steadily improving team for three seasons, I think you should consider my advice.
If you graduated high school or even middle school (and I could question both), you would learn the scientific process. Right now you and losing are the only consistent variables, so maybe you should consider looking internally. I think you have a lot of dedication, but it is amazing to me that you would pour so much time into something just to ruin all that effort because of your own mentality. Please do not quote my response until you have won a match in IM.

If you spent time practicing instead of writing nerd essays nobody reads maybe you would win a match :D

EDIT: I was gonna just shitpost but I read the shit you're saying and I need to say actually things. Muddy, you have been one of the worst players on your team every season. You cut protag and beel (two players much better than you) claiming you had better players to play (also a lie). Regardless of better replacements or not, this type of thinking is awful. If you continue to try and replace everyone around you, you will never develop chemistry as a team which is an integral part in this game. You cut players week two. That's minimal time to actually develop cohesion as a team, and guess what? Now you get to start over. Work with the players you have. If you're a mid IM level player you should be able to help your team easily match you by making mid IM level plays and calls. Furthermore, continuously cutting players and leaving yourself in roster turmoil scares away the type of player that you want to play with. As someone who has lead a steadily improving team for three seasons, I think you should consider my advice.
If you graduated high school or even middle school (and I could question both), you would learn the scientific process. Right now you and losing are the only consistent variables, so maybe you should consider looking internally. I think you have a lot of dedication, but it is amazing to me that you would pour so much time into something just to ruin all that effort because of your own mentality. Please do not quote my response until you have won a match in IM.
76
#76
-5 Frags +
dzdy_pluribisSegnowhat is this thread even anymore
Guess you could say that we're
Show Content
beating a dead horse

I love you patrick, can't wait to meet you at LAN!

[quote=dzdy_pluribis][quote=Segno]what is this thread even anymore[/quote]

Guess you could say that we're

[spoiler][b]beating a dead horse[/b][/spoiler][/quote]

I love you patrick, can't wait to meet you at LAN!
77
#77
-9 Frags +
5unnydzdy_pluribisSegnowhat is this thread even anymore
Guess you could say that we're
Show Content
beating a dead horse

I love you patrick, can't wait to meet you at LAN!

youre not going to lan

[quote=5unny][quote=dzdy_pluribis][quote=Segno]what is this thread even anymore[/quote]

Guess you could say that we're

[spoiler][b]beating a dead horse[/b][/spoiler][/quote]

I love you patrick, can't wait to meet you at LAN![/quote]

youre not going to lan
78
#78
-8 Frags +

bump

bump
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