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cp_prolands
181
#181
-1 Frags +

can the version with the uncappable spire be removed from serveme? we scrimmed some guys on it without knowing and they thought that we were fucking with the server or something

can the version with the uncappable spire be removed from serveme? we scrimmed some guys on it without knowing and they thought that we were fucking with the server or something
182
#182
6 Frags +

B4b out

(Dropbox) Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9kxa0jdrbaf5ri/cp_prolands_b4b.zip?dl=0

cp_prolands_b4a -> cp_prolands_b4b

You can now cap spire! (revolutionary)

sagecan the version with the uncappable spire be removed from serveme? we scrimmed some guys on it without knowing and they thought that we were fucking with the server or something

I can ask Arie, sure.
EDIT: b4 and b4a removed from serverme.

B4b out

(Dropbox) Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9kxa0jdrbaf5ri/cp_prolands_b4b.zip?dl=0

cp_prolands_b4a -> cp_prolands_b4b

You can now cap spire! (revolutionary)

[quote=sage]can the version with the uncappable spire be removed from serveme? we scrimmed some guys on it without knowing and they thought that we were fucking with the server or something[/quote]
I can ask Arie, sure.
EDIT: b4 and b4a removed from serverme.
183
#183
7 Frags +

https://imgur.com/a/uribd
watch out

https://imgur.com/a/uribd
watch out
184
#184
3 Frags +
kolinghttps://imgur.com/a/uribd
watch out

b5 leaked

[quote=koling]https://imgur.com/a/uribd
watch out[/quote]
b5 leaked
185
#185
2 Frags +

I have discovered a couple of errors around the map, screenshots can be found in this gallery. https://postimg.org/gallery/rqslddfo/cdb0854f/

One beam near dropdown on red side is solid while on blu is not. And also on red side of mid is a perch bigger than blu side giving roamers on blu a slight advantage if they take advantage of it. Both tiny just worth mentioning. Also in the gallery is a screenshot of the platform above the flank on last, why was this added? Soldiers already have an easy enough time controlling this area without having an ambush above a choke and this could make it even harder to push out, if taken advantage of

I have discovered a couple of errors around the map, screenshots can be found in this gallery. https://postimg.org/gallery/rqslddfo/cdb0854f/

One beam near dropdown on red side is solid while on blu is not. And also on red side of mid is a perch bigger than blu side giving roamers on blu a slight advantage if they take advantage of it. Both tiny just worth mentioning. Also in the gallery is a screenshot of the platform above the flank on last, why was this added? Soldiers already have an easy enough time controlling this area without having an ambush above a choke and this could make it even harder to push out, if taken advantage of
186
#186
2 Frags +
SPAMMTristOne beam near dropdown on red side is solid while on blu is not.

fixed for next version, ty.

SPAMMTristAnd also on red side of mid is a perch bigger than blu side giving roamers on blu a slight advantage if they take advantage of it. Both tiny just worth mentioning.

Cool, nobody including me noticed this before. Same issue on default badlands.

SPAMMTristAlso in the gallery is a screenshot of the platform above the flank on last, why was this added.

It's a less powerful replacement for the lamp, backcap spot. (people can check it from lobby unlike the lamp.)

SPAMMTristSoldiers already have an easy enough time controlling this area without having an ambush above a choke and this could make it even harder to push out, if taken advantage of

Unless you have wallhacks, scout is favoured since they can run past and meatshot before you have time to react. Also, peaker's advantage. Holding normally as soldier is still better. I don't see this as being an issue on any level really. (Maybe the aesthetic of it)

[quote=SPAMMTrist]One beam near dropdown on red side is solid while on blu is not.[/quote]
fixed for next version, ty.

[quote=SPAMMTrist]And also on red side of mid is a perch bigger than blu side giving roamers on blu a slight advantage if they take advantage of it. Both tiny just worth mentioning.[/quote]
Cool, nobody including me noticed this before. Same issue on default badlands.

[quote=SPAMMTrist]Also in the gallery is a screenshot of the platform above the flank on last, why was this added.[/quote]
It's a less powerful replacement for the lamp, backcap spot. (people can check it from lobby unlike the lamp.)

[quote=SPAMMTrist]Soldiers already have an easy enough time controlling this area without having an ambush above a choke and this could make it even harder to push out, if taken advantage of[/quote]
Unless you have wallhacks, scout is favoured since they can run past and meatshot before you have time to react. [url=https://gfycat.com/ImportantIllfatedCoati]Also, peaker's advantage.[/url] Holding normally as soldier is still better. I don't see this as being an issue on any level really. (Maybe the aesthetic of it)
187
#187
TF2 Pro League
7 Frags +

Hello, could you upload b4b to the workshop ? Thanks very much

Hello, could you upload b4b to the workshop ? Thanks very much
188
#188
2 Frags +

How do I update a map? If literally only know how to upload. Gonna roll out b5 thus weekend, only with minor bug fixes and a small change.

How do I update a map? If literally only know how to upload. Gonna roll out b5 thus weekend, only with minor bug fixes and a small change.
189
#189
1 Frags +

B5 out!

(Dropbox) Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/57kh7t1vn3dx765/cp_prolands_b5.zip?dl=0

cp_prolands_b4b -> cp_prolands_b5

- Fixed two instances of map not being properly mirrored.
- Replaced the disgraceful concrete block I put on spire, with a wooden platform.

The reason I delayed these (minor) changes is because I've been looking for a way to make the spire "hitbox" more accurate, and the only way to do that properly, is to redo the prop entirely, so it alligns with the hammer grid. This would not mean huge changes to how the prop actually functions in game, biggest difference would be that it would be accurate. If anyone here has 3D modelling skills who wants to help with this minor and fairly insignificant task, feel free to contact me.

On another note, I've been thinking about changing the elevation around the spire area slightly to make a small terrain "ramp" that you could rocket jump off, which also would serve the purpose to allow for smooth walking (without jumping) up the spire. I mean, these changes are fairly trivial so they are likely not worth the effort.

Also, does anyone have an opinion on how to make last a bit more easy to push? I've been thinking about doing something a bit more radical: Raising the roof on last and in top lobby by quite a lot. Imagine the height of the roof in last & lobby on a map like reckoner for instance. I think there might be a split opinion on this but I want to try new things to make it more possible to push last, especially when your opponents have 2-3 offclasses + loose cannon. Perhaps something similar could be done to bottom left? Ultimately I am not comfortable working on these changes without a large approval.

B5 out!

(Dropbox) Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/57kh7t1vn3dx765/cp_prolands_b5.zip?dl=0

[u]cp_prolands_b4b -> cp_prolands_b5[/u]

- Fixed two instances of map not being properly mirrored.
- Replaced the disgraceful concrete block I put on spire, with a wooden platform.

The reason I delayed these (minor) changes is because I've been looking for a way to make the spire "hitbox" more accurate, and the only way to do that properly, is to redo the prop entirely, so it alligns with the hammer grid. This would not mean huge changes to how the prop actually functions in game, biggest difference would be that it would be accurate. If anyone here has 3D modelling skills who wants to help with this minor and fairly insignificant task, feel free to contact me.

On another note, I've been thinking about changing the elevation around the spire area slightly to make a small terrain "ramp" that you could rocket jump off, which also would serve the purpose to allow for smooth walking (without jumping) up the spire. I mean, these changes are fairly trivial so they are likely not worth the effort.

Also, does anyone have an opinion on how to make last a bit more easy to push? I've been thinking about doing something a bit more radical: Raising the roof on last and in top lobby by quite a lot. Imagine the height of the roof in last & lobby on a map like reckoner for instance. I think there might be a split opinion on this but I want to try new things to make it more possible to push last, especially when your opponents have 2-3 offclasses + loose cannon. Perhaps something similar could be done to bottom left? Ultimately I am not comfortable working on these changes without a large approval.
190
#190
22 Frags +

you are taking your changes too far without actually fixing anything, you should have stopped after fixing splash bugs and adding ammo packs, pushing out/into (the biggest issue people have with the map) last wasn't improved
badlands' flaws can't be fixed within the current map, if you saw the newest granary_pro version, the creator has reverted many changes and i think the same should be done to prolands at this point, if people genuinely dislike the map any changes aren't gonna change it and maybe it's time to let the map go
if you have ideas i suggest you make your own map

you are taking your changes too far without actually fixing anything, you should have stopped after fixing splash bugs and adding ammo packs, pushing out/into (the biggest issue people have with the map) last wasn't improved
badlands' flaws can't be fixed within the current map, if you saw the newest granary_pro version, the creator has reverted many changes and i think the same should be done to prolands at this point, if people genuinely dislike the map any changes aren't gonna change it and maybe it's time to let the map go
if you have ideas i suggest you make your own map
191
#191
1 Frags +
deguyou are taking your changes too far without actually fixing anything

Are you talking about ones that are already made, or the ones I'm considering?

deguyou should have stopped after fixing splash bugs and adding ammo packs, pushing out/into (the biggest issue people have with the map) last wasn't improved
badlands' flaws can't be fixed within the current map, if you saw the newest granary_pro version, the creator has reverted many changes and i think the same should be done to prolands at this point, if people genuinely dislike the map any changes aren't gonna change it and maybe it's time to let the map go
if you have ideas i suggest you make your own map

I don't know if you realised, but in b4 I did revert some of the changes around spire that people didn't like. For some reason etf2l chose to keep playing b3 for the season.

[quote=degu]you are taking your changes too far without actually fixing anything[/quote]
Are you talking about ones that are already made, or the ones I'm considering?

[quote=degu]you should have stopped after fixing splash bugs and adding ammo packs, pushing out/into (the biggest issue people have with the map) last wasn't improved
badlands' flaws can't be fixed within the current map, if you saw the newest granary_pro version, the creator has reverted many changes and i think the same should be done to prolands at this point, if people genuinely dislike the map any changes aren't gonna change it and maybe it's time to let the map go
if you have ideas i suggest you make your own map[/quote]
I don't know if you realised, but in b4 I did revert some of the changes around spire that people didn't like. For some reason etf2l chose to keep playing b3 for the season.
192
#192
4 Frags +
CollaideAre you talking about ones that are already made, or the ones I'm considering?

both
i mean changes to the lobby, hiding spots, removing the ledge on balcony, rework of top lobby and the respawn times

CollaideI don't know if you realised, but in b4 I did revert some of the changes around spire that people didn't like. For some reason etf2l chose to keep playing b3 for the season.

don't get me wrong, i'm one of the last people who like the map and i'd like to see it played but changing everything that comes to mind won't make badlands popular again

[quote=Collaide]Are you talking about ones that are already made, or the ones I'm considering?
[/quote]
both
i mean changes to the lobby, hiding spots, removing the ledge on balcony, rework of top lobby and the respawn times
[quote=Collaide]
I don't know if you realised, but in b4 I did revert some of the changes around spire that people didn't like. For some reason etf2l chose to keep playing b3 for the season.[/quote]
don't get me wrong, i'm one of the last people who like the map and i'd like to see it played but changing everything that comes to mind won't make badlands popular again
193
#193
-2 Frags +
CollaideI don't know if you realised, but in b4 I did revert some of the changes around spire that people didn't like. For some reason etf2l chose to keep playing b3 for the season.

don't get me wrong, i'm one of the last people who like the map and i'd like to see it played but changing everything that comes to mind won't make badlands popular again[/quote]
Well, I wouldn't agree with you. Default badlands is incredibly flawed in a multitude of ways. I personally don't care if the map changes slightly as long as it gets improved over its previous state. You comparing it to granary pro is quite silly really, as the changes there are way more drastic, without even looking at the most recent version where the control point is in yard. This all being said, I wish each individual change would be discussed on its own merits, and I believe it largely has.

degui mean changes to the lobby [...] rework of top lobby

I made props in ceiling nonsolid and made it easier to push in and out of last by expanding the doorways. (Removed ONE sticky trap)

deguhiding spots

Only hiding spot I removed is the lamps, and removing them has gotten positive feedback both because checking every lamp for hiders is silly and it's annoying to get stuck on them (they prohibit movement).

deguremoving the ledge on balcony

re-added in b4, please read patch notes folks.

deguthe respawn times

The goal I set was to be able to push last when you wipe a team on second, and to push out of last when you wipe a team on last. As far as I'm aware these new spawn times accomplished that. If you think they can be fine tuned a bit, that's fine, but why people don't actually give out the feedback but instead post angry comments when I talk about the map baffles me.

[quote=Collaide]
I don't know if you realised, but in b4 I did revert some of the changes around spire that people didn't like. For some reason etf2l chose to keep playing b3 for the season.[/quote]
don't get me wrong, i'm one of the last people who like the map and i'd like to see it played but changing everything that comes to mind won't make badlands popular again[/quote]
Well, I wouldn't agree with you. Default badlands is incredibly flawed in a multitude of ways. I personally don't care if the map changes slightly as long as it gets improved over its previous state. You comparing it to granary pro is quite silly really, as the changes there are way more drastic, without even looking at the most recent version where the control point is in yard. This all being said, I wish each individual change would be discussed on its own merits, and I believe it largely has.

[quote=degu]i mean changes to the lobby [...] rework of top lobby[/quote]
I made props in ceiling nonsolid and made it easier to push in and out of last by expanding the doorways. (Removed ONE sticky trap)

[quote=degu]hiding spots[/quote] Only hiding spot I removed is the lamps, and removing them has gotten positive feedback both because checking every lamp for hiders is silly and it's annoying to get stuck on them (they prohibit movement).

[quote=degu]removing the ledge on balcony[/quote]
re-added in b4, please read patch notes folks.

[quote=degu]the respawn times[/quote]
The goal I set was to be able to push last when you wipe a team on second, and to push out of last when you wipe a team on last. As far as I'm aware these new spawn times accomplished that. If you think they can be fine tuned a bit, that's fine, but why people don't actually give out the feedback but instead post angry comments when I talk about the map baffles me.
194
#194
3 Frags +
CollaideWell, I wouldn't agree with you. Default badlands is incredibly flawed in a multitude of ways. I personally don't care if the map changes slightly as long as it gets improved over its previous state. You comparing it to granary pro is quite silly really, as the changes there are way more drastic, without even looking at the most recent version where the control point is in yard. This all being said, I wish each individual change would be discussed on its own merits, and I believe it largely has.

i never said that badlands is not a flawed map I think it has many flaws but it's not in human power to change it without making basically a new map.
I'm not comparing it to granary, I suggested you do similar thing to the the creator of granary_pro and revert many changes to its previous state
and please read patch notes folks., the newest granary (granary_pro2) is a mix between the valve granary and rc4/rc8, where the developer takes things that worked well and improved the gameplay and reverted those which didn't affect it or made the gameplay worse

CollaideI made props in ceiling nonsolid and made it easier to push in and out of last by expanding the doorways. (Removed ONE sticky trap)

by rework of top lobby i meant opening up the 2 top passages to last, i didn't experience any change to the flow of the map and i think that change should be reverted, great job on cleaning the unnecessary clutter

CollaideOnly hiding spot I removed is the lamps, and removing them has gotten positive feedback both because checking every lamp for hiders is silly and it's annoying to get stuck on them (they prohibit movement).

the old hiding spots are hard to get to making them rewarding for those who can get into position quickly and punish those who just look at the floor instead of checking the common hiding spots
also doesn't take any more time to check the lamps in bottom left room (don't know the correct call out) since if you want to clear the room itself you have walk through there (or that's the fastest way i know)

Collaidere-added in b4, please read patch notes folks.

GAMEPLAY CHANGES:
- Slightly raised some concrete in lobby.
- Re-added the 3 ledges around spire, but now they're all very visible.

nowhere it says specifically that the ledge on balcony has been reverted, I accept my mistake but the change isn't properly listed in the patch notes

CollaideThe goal I set was to be able to push last when you wipe a team on second, and to push out of last when you wipe a team on last. As far as I'm aware these new spawn times accomplished that. If you think they can be fine tuned a bit, that's fine,

in the past 2 seasons when the prolands were played i haven't experienced or observed any changes to the difficulty of pushing out of last but I don't have access to the data you have collected so I might be wrong

CollaideIbut why people don't actually give out the feedback but instead post angry comments when I talk about the map baffles me.

what parts of my comments makes you think i'm angry, i feel like you are trying to spark an argument between us because i disagree with you on your work, i've given you my honest opinion that your current version (even if some stuff was reverted) changes too much and that next step in development of this map should be reverting more things back. If you don't like my feedback or think it's worthless you can always choose not to take it mind when making next version.

[quote=Collaide]
Well, I wouldn't agree with you. Default badlands is incredibly flawed in a multitude of ways. I personally don't care if the map changes slightly as long as it gets improved over its previous state. You comparing it to granary pro is quite silly really, as the changes there are way more drastic, without even looking at the most recent version where the control point is in yard. This all being said, I wish each individual change would be discussed on its own merits, and I believe it largely has.[/quote]
i never said that badlands is not a flawed map I think it has many flaws but it's not in human power to change it without making basically a new map.
I'm not comparing it to granary, I suggested you do similar thing to the the creator of granary_pro and revert many changes to its previous state
and [b]please read patch notes folks.[/b], the newest granary (granary_pro2) is a mix between the valve granary and rc4/rc8, where the developer takes things that worked well and improved the gameplay and reverted those which didn't affect it or made the gameplay worse
[quote=Collaide]
I made props in ceiling nonsolid and made it easier to push in and out of last by expanding the doorways. (Removed ONE sticky trap)[/quote]
by rework of top lobby i meant opening up the 2 top passages to last, i didn't experience any change to the flow of the map and i think that change should be reverted, great job on cleaning the unnecessary clutter
[quote=Collaide]Only hiding spot I removed is the lamps, and removing them has gotten positive feedback both because checking every lamp for hiders is silly and it's annoying to get stuck on them (they prohibit movement).[/quote]
the old hiding spots are hard to get to making them rewarding for those who can get into position quickly and punish those who just look at the floor instead of checking the common hiding spots
also doesn't take any more time to check the lamps in bottom left room (don't know the correct call out) since if you want to clear the room itself you have walk through there (or that's the fastest way i know)
[quote=Collaide]
re-added in b4, please read patch notes folks.
[/quote]
GAMEPLAY CHANGES:
- Slightly raised some concrete in lobby.
- Re-added the 3 ledges around spire, but now they're all very visible.

nowhere it says specifically that the ledge on balcony has been reverted, I accept my mistake but the change isn't properly listed in the patch notes
[quote=Collaide]
The goal I set was to be able to push last when you wipe a team on second, and to push out of last when you wipe a team on last. As far as I'm aware these new spawn times accomplished that. If you think they can be fine tuned a bit, that's fine, [/quote]
in the past 2 seasons when the prolands were played i haven't experienced or observed any changes to the difficulty of pushing out of last but I don't have access to the data you have collected so I might be wrong
[quote=Collaide]Ibut why people don't actually give out the feedback but instead post angry comments when I talk about the map baffles me.[/quote]
what parts of my comments makes you think i'm angry, i feel like you are trying to spark an argument between us because i disagree with you on your work, i've given you my honest opinion that your current version (even if some stuff was reverted) changes too much and that next step in development of this map should be reverting more things back. If you don't like my feedback or think it's worthless you can always choose not to take it mind when making next version.
195
#195
12 Frags +

Fair enough, I will make an official statement regarding the map: there will be no new major changes. From this point forward it will only be bug fixes, and possibly reverting some things. Only possible change for the future is to make the spire hitbox to be more accurate. Other than that I will leave the map as it is. With that said I overreacted to some of the criticism, please feel free to keep talking about the map.

Fair enough, I will make an official statement regarding the map: there will be no new major changes. From this point forward it will only be bug fixes, and possibly reverting some things. Only possible change for the future is to make the spire hitbox to be more accurate. Other than that I will leave the map as it is. With that said I overreacted to some of the criticism, please feel free to keep talking about the map.
196
#196
7 Frags +

Badlands is the best map in the game, thank you for trying to keep it relevant in a world where bad players hate it.

Badlands is the best map in the game, thank you for trying to keep it relevant in a world where bad players hate it.
197
#197
8 Frags +

Any chance we could get a version of prolands with the old last cap speed? Doesn't have to be an official release, but it would be nice to try it out and see how much impact it makes to pushing last/stalemates. Would be very easy to test it as an unofficial version as well since it barely changes the map.

I honestly believe this change by valve is a primary reason why it became a problematic map after many years of ubiquitous enjoyment. The arguments against the old cap speed (backcaps/ninjas etc) are valid, but I really think the the trade-off is worth it.

Any chance we could get a version of prolands with the old last cap speed? Doesn't have to be an official release, but it would be nice to try it out and see how much impact it makes to pushing last/stalemates. Would be very easy to test it as an unofficial version as well since it barely changes the map.

I honestly believe this change by valve is a primary reason why it became a problematic map after many years of ubiquitous enjoyment. The arguments against the old cap speed (backcaps/ninjas etc) are valid, but I really think the the trade-off is worth it.
198
#198
4 Frags +
kaidusAny chance we could get a version of prolands with the old last cap speed? Doesn't have to be an official release, but it would be nice to try it out and see how much impact it makes to pushing last/stalemates. Would be very easy to test it as an unofficial version as well since it barely changes the map.

I honestly believe this change by valve is a primary reason why it became a problematic map after many years of ubiquitous enjoyment. The arguments against the old cap speed (backcaps/ninjas etc) are valid, but I really think the the trade-off is worth it.

You just want to make it easy for thalash to backcap don't you

[quote=kaidus]Any chance we could get a version of prolands with the old last cap speed? Doesn't have to be an official release, but it would be nice to try it out and see how much impact it makes to pushing last/stalemates. Would be very easy to test it as an unofficial version as well since it barely changes the map.

I honestly believe this change by valve is a primary reason why it became a problematic map after many years of ubiquitous enjoyment. The arguments against the old cap speed (backcaps/ninjas etc) are valid, but I really think the the trade-off is worth it.[/quote]
You just want to make it easy for thalash to backcap don't you
199
#199
-9 Frags +
kaidusAny chance we could get a version of prolands with the old last cap speed? Doesn't have to be an official release, but it would be nice to try it out and see how much impact it makes to pushing last/stalemates. Would be very easy to test it as an unofficial version as well since it barely changes the map.

I honestly believe this change by valve is a primary reason why it became a problematic map after many years of ubiquitous enjoyment. The arguments against the old cap speed (backcaps/ninjas etc) are valid, but I really think the the trade-off is worth it.

I can't be fucked to compile it, here is the .vmf file so you can do it yourself: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkllq255fko4zl1/cp_prolands_b5.vmf?dl=0

EDIT: Didn't mean it in an agressive way. I'm lazy and it takes like an hour to compile the map properly again.

[quote=kaidus]Any chance we could get a version of prolands with the old last cap speed? Doesn't have to be an official release, but it would be nice to try it out and see how much impact it makes to pushing last/stalemates. Would be very easy to test it as an unofficial version as well since it barely changes the map.

I honestly believe this change by valve is a primary reason why it became a problematic map after many years of ubiquitous enjoyment. The arguments against the old cap speed (backcaps/ninjas etc) are valid, but I really think the the trade-off is worth it.[/quote]
I can't be fucked to compile it, here is the .vmf file so you can do it yourself: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkllq255fko4zl1/cp_prolands_b5.vmf?dl=0

EDIT: Didn't mean it in an agressive way. I'm lazy and it takes like an hour to compile the map properly again.
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