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Lowpander swaps out Kissakala and Grenjabob, Crayon joins
posted in News
91
#91
-5 Frags +

Hi guys i am looking for a team to play in i play demoman and will try very hard, i don't want to play in high because the copy pastas actually make me feel sad a bit.

Good luck Crayola crayons!

Hi guys i am looking for a team to play in i play demoman and will try very hard, i don't want to play in high because the copy pastas actually make me feel sad a bit.

Good luck Crayola crayons!
92
#92
62 Frags +

holy europe

holy europe
93
#93
9 Frags +

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
94
#94
5 Frags +
HildrethAll I did was post some facts for you, your response is to slander me, which is a clear sign you haven't really got a good argument to present...

He has no trust in you because of your past record. The head admin at the time is backing up his perception, it would be harder to imagine a stronger witness. This isn't an ad hominem attack, it's a genuine concern. It's also not slanderous if it's true.

[quote=Hildreth]All I did was post some facts for you, your response is to slander me, which is a clear sign you haven't really got a good argument to present...[/quote]
He has no trust in you because of your past record. The head admin at the time is backing up his perception, it would be harder to imagine a stronger witness. This isn't an ad hominem attack, it's a genuine concern. It's also not slanderous if it's true.
95
#95
18 Frags +

Grenjabob interviewed out of all people, and not me???? What a disgrace.

Jk grenja's ok for a commie.
Also to clarify, I decided not to continue playing the game when the state of medic is essentially a glorified arrow. Sometimes uber. It's fucking boring.

Gl to Crayon he seems like a fun fella fits team well love u.

Grenjabob interviewed out of all people, and not me???? What a disgrace.

Jk grenja's ok for a commie.
Also to clarify, I decided not to continue playing the game when the state of medic is essentially a glorified arrow. Sometimes uber. It's fucking boring.

Gl to Crayon he seems like a fun fella fits team well love u.
96
#96
14 Frags +
GentlemanJonThis isn't an ad hominem attack, it's a genuine concern.

Funny, seems to me like Thalash only started calling Hildreth a shit admin after he started losing another argument.

Try https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[quote=GentlemanJon]This isn't an ad hominem attack, it's a genuine concern.[/quote]
Funny, seems to me like Thalash only started calling Hildreth a shit admin after he started losing another argument.

Try https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
97
#97
24 Frags +
GentlemanJonHildrethAll I did was post some facts for you, your response is to slander me, which is a clear sign you haven't really got a good argument to present...He has no trust in you because of your past record. The head admin at the time is backing up his perception, it would be harder to imagine a stronger witness. This isn't an ad hominem attack, it's a genuine concern. It's also not slanderous if it's true.

So basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?

Funny that, because by your and thalashes logic, the admins should also ban thalash from the league: http://etf2l.org/2012/05/26/staff-changes-a-ban/

If someone leaking something unknown 1.5 years ago is an issue, I'm sure getting caught by the game's designated anti-cheat 5 years ago is also an issue.

[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=Hildreth]All I did was post some facts for you, your response is to slander me, which is a clear sign you haven't really got a good argument to present...[/quote]
He has no trust in you because of your past record. The head admin at the time is backing up his perception, it would be harder to imagine a stronger witness. This isn't an ad hominem attack, it's a genuine concern. It's also not slanderous if it's true.[/quote]
So basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?

Funny that, because by your and thalashes logic, the admins should also ban thalash from the league: http://etf2l.org/2012/05/26/staff-changes-a-ban/

If someone leaking something unknown 1.5 years ago is an issue, I'm sure getting caught by the game's designated anti-cheat 5 years ago is also an issue.
98
#98
-14 Frags +

stop

stop
99
#99
25 Frags +
ScrambledFunny, seems to me like Thalash only started calling Hildreth a shit admin after he started losing another argument.

I read that he didn't want to have a private conversation in the recommended etf2l channels because he expected it to not be treated as a private conversation.

MuukiSo basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?

No, I'm saying what I actually said. You could try reading it again and see if it sinks in

Snackstop

You're kidding, this is the most interesting thing to happen in etf2l in years

[quote=Scrambled]Funny, seems to me like Thalash only started calling Hildreth a shit admin after he started losing another argument.[/quote]
I read that he didn't want to have a private conversation in the recommended etf2l channels because he expected it to not be treated as a private conversation.

[quote=Muuki]So basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?[/quote]
No, I'm saying what I actually said. You could try reading it again and see if it sinks in

[quote=Snack]stop[/quote]
You're kidding, this is the most interesting thing to happen in etf2l in years
100
#100
-7 Frags +
GentlemanJonMuukiSo basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?No, I'm saying what I actually said. You could try reading it again and see if it sinks in

"He has no trust in you because of your past record"
"So basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?"

I fail to see what I misunderstood, so instead of spouting things like that you could explain what you actually meant since it seems very confusing as to what your purpose is here.

[quote=GentlemanJon]
[quote=Muuki]So basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?[/quote]
No, I'm saying what I actually said. You could try reading it again and see if it sinks in
[/quote]
"He has no trust in you because of your past record"
"So basically you're saying that if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance?"

I fail to see what I misunderstood, so instead of spouting things like that you could explain what you actually meant since it seems very confusing as to what your purpose is here.
101
#101
1 Frags +
GentlemanJonI read that he didn't want to have a private conversation in the recommended etf2l channels because he expected it to not be treated as a private conversation.

Very good! That was him justifying what I said he did, which was an Ad hominem attack, which is what you declined that he did.

[quote=GentlemanJon]
I read that he didn't want to have a private conversation in the recommended etf2l channels because he expected it to not be treated as a private conversation.[/quote]
Very good! That was him justifying what I said he did, which was an Ad hominem attack, which is what you declined that he did.
102
#102
13 Frags +
Muuki

There is a clear difference. "He has no trust in you because of your past record" is Jon explaining the foundation of thalash's post - if hildreth did indeed leak information then thalash would be justified in not trusting him over discord..

You used that and turned it into "if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance", which you used to redirect to thalash as more slander for being caught by AC as if that is some witty retort to the point he was making. Jon did not imply at any point that he thinks people should not get second chances - and using those quotations to suggest that that is the case is either a misunderstanding or being childish.

Edit: holy fuck this is getting so meta

[quote=Muuki][/quote]
There is a clear difference. "He has no trust in you because of your past record" is Jon explaining the foundation of thalash's post - if hildreth did indeed leak information then thalash would be justified in not trusting him over discord..

You used that and turned it into "if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance", which you used to redirect to thalash as more slander for being caught by AC as if that is some witty retort to the point he was making. Jon did not imply at any point that he thinks people should not get second chances - and using those quotations to suggest that that is the case is either a misunderstanding or being childish.

Edit: holy fuck this is getting so meta
103
#103
1 Frags +
nuze

So Hildreth suggested to Thalash to contact ETF2L through correct channels to suggest changes to the entire system that admins use to decide prem teams, yet because Hildreth leaked something years ago, he can't trust the admins with this info???

[quote=nuze][/quote]
So Hildreth suggested to Thalash to contact ETF2L through correct channels to suggest changes to the entire system that admins use to decide prem teams, yet because Hildreth leaked something years ago, he can't trust the admins with this info???
104
#104
-2 Frags +
nuzeMuukiThere is a clear difference. "He has no trust in you because of your past record" is Jon explaining the foundation of thalash's post - if hildreth did indeed leak information then thalash would be justified in not trusting him over discord..
You used that and turned it into "if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance" which you used to redirect to thalash as more slander for being caught by AC as if that is some witty retort to the point he was making. Jon did not imply at any point that he thinks people should not get second chances - and using those quotations to suggest that that is the case is either a misunderstanding or being childish.

No there really is no difference, the admin team has allowed hildreth back on the admin team as a representative of the League, while your gang is hung up on a leak 1,5 years ago, not giving him a 2nd chance at trust. Please explain to me How these things are NOT the same

[quote=nuze][quote=Muuki][/quote]
There is a clear difference. "He has no trust in you because of your past record" is Jon explaining the foundation of thalash's post - if hildreth did indeed leak information then thalash would be justified in not trusting him over discord..
You used that and turned it into "if you fuck up once, you shouldn't be given a second chance" which you used to redirect to thalash as more slander for being caught by AC as if that is some witty retort to the point he was making. Jon did not imply at any point that he thinks people should not get second chances - and using those quotations to suggest that that is the case is either a misunderstanding or being childish.
[/quote]
No there really is no difference, the admin team has allowed hildreth back on the admin team as a representative of the League, while your gang is hung up on a leak 1,5 years ago, not giving him a 2nd chance at trust. Please explain to me How these things are NOT the same
105
#105
40 Frags +

http://i.imgur.com/UBzqgIb.jpg

[img]http://i.imgur.com/UBzqgIb.jpg[/img]
106
#106
11 Frags +
Muukiyour gang

I don't know what 'gang' you think there is here, I'm not siding with anyone, i was trying to point out the misunderstanding that you failed to see. I'm not backing up thalash because we both hang out in the Brit mumble and we're super cool buddies and I need to back him up tftv.. in fact I'll agree that his post was an ad hominem attack.

I've not said that I think hildreth shouldn't be an admin, so why are you assuming that I'm of that opinion? Seems to me like you are pigeon holing me just because I'm a Brit and you assume me to be in these circlejerks that you keep bringing up. Well I don't consider myself to be and I'd appreciate if you didn't either.

[quote=Muuki]your gang[/quote]
I don't know what 'gang' you think there is here, I'm not siding with anyone, i was trying to point out the misunderstanding that you failed to see. I'm not backing up thalash because we both hang out in the Brit mumble and we're super cool buddies and I need to back him up tftv.. in fact I'll agree that his post was an ad hominem attack.

I've not said that I think hildreth shouldn't be an admin, so why are you assuming that I'm of that opinion? Seems to me like you are pigeon holing me just because I'm a Brit and you assume me to be in these circlejerks that you keep bringing up. Well I don't consider myself to be and I'd appreciate if you didn't either.
107
#107
8 Frags +
ScrambledVery good! That was him justifying what I said he did, which was an Ad hominem attack, which is what you declined that he did.

Hildreth: Your requests are unreasonable, use etf2l channels to discuss (this is not unreasonable)
Thalash: I have reason to think privacy might not be respected so I don't want to

I know Thalash isn't putting it nicely, but this is the basic content. It really isn't that important, but the points do follow each other, he's not just going off on a tangent. It's a conversation with related back and forth. Just because it doesn't end where it started doesn't make it ad hominem.

If Thalash was saying that the rules dispute in question should be settled in his favour because of this perceived failure of standards then yes, because he'd be drawing a false relationship between the two things, but as far as I can see that's not what he's doing. It seems to me he's saying he doesn't want to discuss any further if he has to use those channels.

If you think that's still ad hominem then I won't try to persuade you otherwise.

MuukiI fail to see what I misunderstood, so instead of spouting things like that you could explain what you actually meant since it seems very confusing as to what your purpose is here.

I think you're misunderstanding my opinion with clarifying something about what someone else is saying. I'm not strongly invested in either side. I get on fine with Hildreth and I'm not assuming he's wrong. It seems his overall position is perfectly justifiable, but that others don't want to extend him the courtesy of the second chance.

[quote=Scrambled]Very good! That was him justifying what I said he did, which was an Ad hominem attack, which is what you declined that he did.[/quote]
Hildreth: Your requests are unreasonable, use etf2l channels to discuss (this is not unreasonable)
Thalash: I have reason to think privacy might not be respected so I don't want to

I know Thalash isn't putting it nicely, but this is the basic content. It really isn't that important, but the points do follow each other, he's not just going off on a tangent. It's a conversation with related back and forth. Just because it doesn't end where it started doesn't make it ad hominem.

If Thalash was saying that the rules dispute in question should be settled in his favour because of this perceived failure of standards then yes, because he'd be drawing a false relationship between the two things, but as far as I can see that's not what he's doing. It seems to me he's saying he doesn't want to discuss any further if he has to use those channels.

If you think that's still ad hominem then I won't try to persuade you otherwise.
[quote=Muuki]I fail to see what I misunderstood, so instead of spouting things like that you could explain what you actually meant since it seems very confusing as to what your purpose is here.[/quote]
I think you're misunderstanding my opinion with clarifying something about what someone else is saying. I'm not strongly invested in either side. I get on fine with Hildreth and I'm not assuming he's wrong. It seems his overall position is perfectly justifiable, but that others don't want to extend him the courtesy of the second chance.
108
#108
-13 Frags +
nuzeMuukiyour gangI've not said that I think hildreth shouldn't be an admin, so why are you assuming that I'm of that opinion? Seems to me like you are pigeon holing me just because I'm a Brit and you assume me to be in these circlejerks that you keep bringing up. Well I don't consider myself to be and I'd appreciate if you didn't either.

Please point to the exact line where I say you personally do not want Hildreth back on the admin team before accusing me of undermining you due to your nationality. If you find something along those lines, I will apologize to you.

Also, the reason why I said "your gang" is because of another thread on the ETF2L forums in which for some reason you were invited alongside other washed up or people not even following the scene to host the award show, which in my eyes shows that you have some connection to the people who started turning this thread into a shitfest.

[quote=nuze][quote=Muuki]your gang[/quote]
I've not said that I think hildreth shouldn't be an admin, so why are you assuming that I'm of that opinion? Seems to me like you are pigeon holing me just because I'm a Brit and you assume me to be in these circlejerks that you keep bringing up. Well I don't consider myself to be and I'd appreciate if you didn't either.[/quote]
Please point to the exact line where I say you personally do not want Hildreth back on the admin team before accusing me of undermining you due to your nationality. If you find something along those lines, I will apologize to you.

Also, the reason why I said "your gang" is because of another thread on the ETF2L forums in which for some reason you were invited alongside other washed up or people not even following the scene to host the award show, which in my eyes shows that you have some connection to the people who started turning this thread into a shitfest.
109
#109
4 Frags +
GentlemanJonHildreth: Your requests are unreasonable, use etf2l channels to discuss (this is not unreasonable)
Thalash: I have reason to think privacy might not be respected so I don't want to

I know Thalash isn't putting it nicely, but this is the basic content. It really isn't that important, but the points do follow each other, he's not just going off on a tangent. It's a conversation with related back and forth. Just because it doesn't end where it started doesn't make it ad hominem.

My guess as to why Hildreth is suggesting this is because its much easier to shut down retarded arguments, like changing the entire system for seeding prem teams based on random shit, in a one on one conversation. There's only one person who can suggest retarded things because of their lack of understanding of the system that way.

It makes absolutely no sense for Thalash to want to converse publicly rather than privately when he has reason to believe that the conversation will be leaked anyway. The information that hypothetically would be leaked, I highly doubt would be of a sensitive nature. He has already posted his opinions of teams being bad publically, what motivation would he have for not wanting to discuss with the admins in the ETF2L discord? Exposing Hildreth as being an untrustworthy admin, which is completely unrelated to the arguments beforehand, seems to be the route he is taking.

[quote=GentlemanJon]
Hildreth: Your requests are unreasonable, use etf2l channels to discuss (this is not unreasonable)
Thalash: I have reason to think privacy might not be respected so I don't want to

I know Thalash isn't putting it nicely, but this is the basic content. It really isn't that important, but the points do follow each other, he's not just going off on a tangent. It's a conversation with related back and forth. Just because it doesn't end where it started doesn't make it ad hominem.
[/quote]

My guess as to why Hildreth is suggesting this is because its much easier to shut down retarded arguments, like changing the entire system for seeding prem teams based on random shit, in a one on one conversation. There's only one person who can suggest retarded things because of their lack of understanding of the system that way.

It makes absolutely no sense for Thalash to want to converse publicly rather than privately when he has reason to believe that the conversation will be leaked anyway. The information that hypothetically would be leaked, I highly doubt would be of a sensitive nature. He has already posted his opinions of teams being bad publically, what motivation would he have for not wanting to discuss with the admins in the ETF2L discord? Exposing Hildreth as being an untrustworthy admin, which is completely unrelated to the arguments beforehand, seems to be the route he is taking.
110
#110
13 Frags +

muuki you started it from reacting to what smzi said on the first page and then they reacted to the shit you said

muuki you started it from reacting to what smzi said on the first page and then they reacted to the shit you said
111
#111
23 Frags +
Muuki

Do you want to check your facts? I've been casting and coaching in prem this season, I've been actively streaming this season, i was recently one of the 6 tftv staff attending GA as well as competing, so if you are implying I fit into the category of being 'washed up' or 'not even following the scene' then you are grossly mistaken and that really highlights ignorance to me, considering that I follow the scene more actively than most prem players and my team won GA over one of this season's playoff teams...

And it wasn't said explicitly but I got that impression pretty strongly, if you say it was due to me being on the awards show and you weren't aware of me being active in the scene then okay I can understand why you might've thought that - but using 'your gang' in that context still implies that you are categorising me without any evidence that I am actually of the same opinion is the others.

And as food for thought, if you need me to point out exact words and lines to justify statements I make then you might be ignoring the very important thing that is context.

[quote=Muuki][/quote]
Do you want to check your facts? I've been casting and coaching in prem this season, I've been actively streaming this season, i was recently one of the 6 tftv staff attending GA as well as competing, so if you are implying I fit into the category of being 'washed up' or 'not even following the scene' then you are grossly mistaken and that really highlights ignorance to me, considering that I follow the scene more actively than most prem players and my team won GA over one of this season's playoff teams...

And it wasn't said explicitly but I got that impression pretty strongly, if you say it was due to me being on the awards show and you weren't aware of me being active in the scene then okay I can understand why you might've thought that - but using 'your gang' in that context still implies that you are categorising me without any evidence that I am actually of the same opinion is the others.

And as food for thought, if you need me to point out exact words and lines to justify statements I make then you might be ignoring the very important thing that is [b]context[/b].
112
#112
-15 Frags +
nuzeMuuki
And as food for thought, if you need me to point out exact words and lines to justify statements I make then you might be ignoring the very important thing that is context.

alright, if you want to talk about context then I'm interested in hearing how you take my saying of there being washed up people on the panel alongside you as being an attack towards you being british.

Also I find it interesting how you talk about context yet get caught up arguing about individual terms and words which have nothing to do with the original context

[quote=nuze][quote=Muuki][/quote]

And as food for thought, if you need me to point out exact words and lines to justify statements I make then you might be ignoring the very important thing that is [b]context[/b].[/quote]
alright, if you want to talk about context then I'm interested in hearing how you take my saying of there being washed up people on the panel alongside you as being an attack towards you being british.

Also I find it interesting how you talk about context yet get caught up arguing about individual terms and words which have nothing to do with the original context
113
#113
15 Frags +
MuukinuzeMuuki
And as food for thought, if you need me to point out exact words and lines to justify statements I make then you might be ignoring the very important thing that is context.
alright, if you want to talk about context then I'm interested in hearing how you take my saying of there being washed up people on the panel alongside you as being an attack towards you being british.

Also I find it interesting how you talk about context yet get caught up arguing about individual terms and words which have nothing to do with the original context

Those were two completely different posts? I'm done here, add me on steam if you must

[quote=Muuki][quote=nuze][quote=Muuki][/quote]

And as food for thought, if you need me to point out exact words and lines to justify statements I make then you might be ignoring the very important thing that is [b]context[/b].[/quote]
alright, if you want to talk about context then I'm interested in hearing how you take my saying of there being washed up people on the panel alongside you as being an attack towards you being british.

Also I find it interesting how you talk about context yet get caught up arguing about individual terms and words which have nothing to do with the original context[/quote]
Those were two completely different posts? I'm done here, add me on steam if you must
114
#114
-10 Frags +

i don't know who to +frag anymore x_X

i don't know who to +frag anymore x_X
115
#115
8 Frags +
viperi don't know who to +frag anymore x_X

Yourself

[quote=viper]i don't know who to +frag anymore x_X[/quote]
Yourself
116
#116
-14 Frags +
GentlemanJonYourself

i would never

[quote=GentlemanJon]Yourself[/quote]
i would never
117
#117
61 Frags +

Muuki If You Do Not Relinquish Your Premiership Spot To Kaidus And Leave At Once The AidsBrit Army Will Descend Upon Your House Tonight And Make A Mess Of Your Free TF2 League By Decree From Lord Permzilla

Muuki If You Do Not Relinquish Your Premiership Spot To Kaidus And Leave At Once The AidsBrit Army Will Descend Upon Your House Tonight And Make A Mess Of Your Free TF2 League By Decree From Lord Permzilla
118
#118
-10 Frags +

Jebaited

Jebaited
119
#119
8 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/lTm5Rzo.png

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lTm5Rzo.png[/img]
120
#120
-3 Frags +

What did he even leak?

What did he even leak?
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