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Would you be in favor of a map rotation revamp?
1
#1
0 Frags +

EDIT: Revived for pre season 27 map discussion

Since the conclusion of the new map cup I've been hearing alot of people chatting about the potential for some of those new maps to make it into the rotation. We have been running the exact same map rotation since season 13-15 ish (with one map being rotated out). With maps that people really enjoy playing (or seem to) and see alot of potential in like cardinal, kalinka, koth_bagel and koth_warmfront, would you be in favour of doing a major overhaul of the current map pool to include most or all of these maps?

Personally I would love to see 3 koth maps, I think having the chance to play koth only once a season seems like a weird and random situation to me (think about if CS:GO had one random Hostage map in the rotation as opposed to the regular Attack/Defend mode) and I would ether remove the mode entirely or include more maps. I think maps like badlands, granary should see their time in the rotation done as they have been included since the stone age, and I know people would like to see some unpopular maps out of the rotation (sunshine, metalworks maybe?)

I think a major map rotation revamp would be really good for "refreshing" competition per say and just bringing an overall modern and differnt feel to the upcoming seasons, and it would just be a lot more interesting to see an abundance of new maps played IMO.

example of a map list i would LOVE to see

cp_process
cp_snakewater
cp_cardinal (possibly change this one for metal)
cp_kalinka
koth_viaduct
koth_bagel
koth_warmfront
cp_gullywash

EDIT: Revived for pre season 27 map discussion

Since the conclusion of the new map cup I've been hearing alot of people chatting about the potential for some of those new maps to make it into the rotation. We have been running the exact same map rotation since season 13-15 ish (with one map being rotated out). With maps that people really enjoy playing (or seem to) and see alot of potential in like cardinal, kalinka, koth_bagel and koth_warmfront, would you be in favour of doing a major overhaul of the current map pool to include most or all of these maps?

Personally I would love to see 3 koth maps, I think having the chance to play koth only once a season seems like a weird and random situation to me (think about if CS:GO had one random Hostage map in the rotation as opposed to the regular Attack/Defend mode) and I would ether remove the mode entirely or include more maps. I think maps like badlands, granary should see their time in the rotation done as they have been included since the stone age, and I know people would like to see some unpopular maps out of the rotation (sunshine, metalworks maybe?)

I think a major map rotation revamp would be really good for "refreshing" competition per say and just bringing an overall modern and differnt feel to the upcoming seasons, and it would just be a lot more interesting to see an abundance of new maps played IMO.

example of a map list i would LOVE to see

cp_process
cp_snakewater
cp_cardinal (possibly change this one for metal)
cp_kalinka
koth_viaduct
koth_bagel
koth_warmfront
cp_gullywash
2
#2
9 Frags +

Replace metalworks with bagel

Replace metalworks with bagel
3
#3
7 Frags +

since there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.

since there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.
4
#4
11 Frags +

I don't think warmfront does very well as a koth map, the capture point is very convoluted and has way too much geometry for a koth map

I don't think warmfront does very well as a koth map, the capture point is very convoluted and has way too much geometry for a koth map
5
#5
35 Frags +
Twiggysince there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.

[quote=Twiggy]since there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.[/quote]

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.
6
#6
-19 Frags +

Badlands, Process, Gully, Product, Granary, Sunshine, Snakewater, Metalworks/Logjam

Badlands, Process, Gully, Product, Granary, Sunshine, Snakewater, Metalworks/Logjam
7
#7
0 Frags +

I like this map pool
The map pool needs to be remade again especially another koth map

I like this map pool
The map pool needs to be remade again especially another koth map
8
#8
21 Frags +
saamTwiggysince there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.

I agree that maps shouldn't be inserted into the rotation that aren't objectively "good" maps, like what was happening before when horrible maps were getting voted into the rotation. That being said, I think these 4 maps barring some slight tweaking (maybe warmfront a little more) are more than playable in the rotation. what makes these maps "good" for the most part i think comes down to preference, I know tons of people who love badlands and just as many that absolutely loathe it and its been in rotation since day 1. Sometimes I think it should be considered that adding in new things that teams need to adapt to and learn is a good asset to creating good competition, not just keeping what is objectively "the best" and what every team is comfortable with playing. by forcing teams to become masters at something new, or giving other teams who maybe aren't great with the current rotation a chance to also become good on a map that another team hasn't, I think you're adding a really healthy and solid situation to competitive play in general.

plus it would just be fucking fun to play some new maps :)

[quote=saam][quote=Twiggy]since there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.[/quote]

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.[/quote]

I agree that maps shouldn't be inserted into the rotation that aren't objectively "good" maps, like what was happening before when horrible maps were getting voted into the rotation. That being said, I think these 4 maps barring some slight tweaking (maybe warmfront a little more) are more than playable in the rotation. what makes these maps "good" for the most part i think comes down to preference, I know tons of people who love badlands and just as many that absolutely loathe it and its been in rotation since day 1. Sometimes I think it should be considered that adding in new things that teams need to adapt to and learn is a good asset to creating good [b]competition[/b], not just keeping what is objectively "the best" and what every team is comfortable with playing. by forcing teams to become masters at something new, or giving other teams who maybe aren't great with the current rotation a chance to also become good on a map that another team hasn't, I think you're adding a really healthy and solid situation to competitive play in general.

plus it would just be fucking fun to play some new maps :)
9
#9
-1 Frags +

agree

agree
10
#10
17 Frags +

I don't understand why granary is still in the maplist when most of the players I know absolutely hate it

I don't understand why granary is still in the maplist when most of the players I know absolutely hate it
11
#11
-11 Frags +

I would personally like to see:
-badlands
-granary
+coalplant (I realize it's not one of the "new fad" maps, but I remember enjoying it more than viaduct years ago in ugc)
+logjam
but I also trust tri's taste enough to make the decisions for me and ESEA.

I would personally like to see:
-badlands
-granary
+coalplant (I realize it's not one of the "new fad" maps, but I remember enjoying it more than viaduct years ago in ugc)
+logjam
but I also trust tri's taste enough to make the decisions for me and ESEA.
12
#12
cp_granary_pro
20 Frags +

keep badlands in the rotation
playtest the new maps more, maybe have another cup, and do a poll or a vote

keep badlands in the rotation
playtest the new maps more, maybe have another cup, and do a poll or a vote
13
#13
18 Frags +
Daggerkeep badlands in the rotation
playtest the new maps more, maybe have another cup, and do a poll or a vote

Im not really sure I trust the voting system considering the last 15 seasons.

[quote=Dagger]keep badlands in the rotation
playtest the new maps more, maybe have another cup, and do a poll or a vote[/quote]

Im not really sure I trust the voting system considering the last 15 seasons.
14
#14
5 Frags +

why dont we do something with the statistics from the map rotation ranking that spacecadet is making and have a discussion about taking out the bottom two maps and running another map cup (or 2) and taking the top 2 maps from them (i know the numbers are skewed because not everyone will play every map) and doing something like that.

and maybe to fix the issue with not everyone getting to play every map in the map cup we could make it a round robin again but this time each round has a specified map and make sure there are enough teams in each group to play every map?

why dont we do something with the statistics from the map rotation ranking that spacecadet is making and have a discussion about taking out the bottom two maps and running another map cup (or 2) and taking the top 2 maps from them (i know the numbers are skewed because not everyone will play every map) and doing something like that.

and maybe to fix the issue with not everyone getting to play every map in the map cup we could make it a round robin again but this time each round has a specified map and make sure there are enough teams in each group to play every map?
15
#15
8 Frags +

i wouldnt mind seeing some fresh new maps, or not playing granary for a season or 2

more koth maps would be dope

i wouldnt mind seeing some fresh new maps, or not playing granary for a season or 2

more koth maps would be dope
16
#16
17 Frags +

in theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked

in theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked
17
#17
2 Frags +

more koth maps would be pretty nice; there are too many 5cp
i would like to have badlands, but the last isn't too good (no map is perfect though)
i would love to see the map pool changed up, even if just for a season

the new maps would obviously need to be tested more, but the current maps have faced changes over time as well.

more koth maps would be pretty nice; there are too many 5cp
i would like to have badlands, but the last isn't too good (no map is perfect though)
i would love to see the map pool changed up, even if just for a season

the new maps would obviously need to be tested more, but the current maps have faced changes over time as well.
18
#18
21 Frags +
botmodein theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked

snakewater and process when they were both inserted into the rotation had the exact same thing said about them and they were in early states as well. they were developed over time and are way different from the originals and people ended up liking them just fine, enough to be a stable in the rotation for over 15 seasons. whats to say these maps do not have the potential to do the same?

[quote=botmode]in theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked[/quote]

snakewater and process when they were both inserted into the rotation had the [b]exact[/b] same thing said about them and they were in early states as well. they were developed over time and are way different from the originals and people ended up liking them just fine, enough to be a stable in the rotation for over 15 seasons. whats to say these maps do not have the potential to do the same?
19
#19
5 Frags +

I would take anything to replace metalworks.

I would take anything to replace metalworks.
20
#20
12 Frags +
botmodein theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked

for most of these maps i'd agree with you, but i think bagel has been pretty much universally liked by those that have spent time learning how to play the map, and yrr has shown herself capable of responding well to feedback and making smart balance changes. i think most of the community would agree that we ought to at least have a second koth map in the rotation, and i also think most of the community would agree that granary is a miserable map or that, at the very least, it isnt to the standard of the other 5cp maps that we play. we have a huge opportunity here to seriously improve our map pool and simultaneously take steps towards aligning ever so slightly with valves visions of the game, i.e. a game in which 5cp is not the only mode played and other gamemodes have the chance to be seen as competitive.

[quote=botmode]in theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked[/quote]

for most of these maps i'd agree with you, but i think bagel has been pretty much universally liked by those that have spent time learning how to play the map, and yrr has shown herself capable of responding well to feedback and making smart balance changes. i think most of the community would agree that we ought to at least have a second koth map in the rotation, and i also think most of the community would agree that granary is a miserable map or that, at the very least, it isnt to the standard of the other 5cp maps that we play. we have a huge opportunity here to seriously improve our map pool and simultaneously take steps towards aligning ever so slightly with valves visions of the game, i.e. a game in which 5cp is not the only mode played and other gamemodes have the chance to be seen as competitive.
21
#21
15 Frags +

also for the record i would also be in favor of putting less proven maps into the rotation to be developed over time, but i recognize that most of the community would be against that. however with bagel, i just dont think thats the case. i think bagel is a competitively ready map, period.

also for the record i would also be in favor of putting less proven maps into the rotation to be developed over time, but i recognize that most of the community would be against that. [i]however[/i] with bagel, i just dont think thats the case. i think bagel is a competitively ready map, period.
22
#22
15 Frags +

-cp_granary +cp/koth_anything

-cp_granary +cp/koth_anything
23
#23
-5 Frags +

replace granary with coalplant
replace metal with logjam
replace de_inferno (sunshine??) with koth_bagel/warmfront

replace granary with coalplant
replace metal with logjam
replace de_inferno (sunshine??) with koth_bagel/warmfront
24
#24
4 Frags +
saamTwiggysince there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.

I'm not in favor of changing map for the sake of it. But right now it feels that more than 8 maps are worth being in the map pool that's all

[quote=saam][quote=Twiggy]since there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.[/quote]

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.[/quote]

I'm not in favor of changing map for the sake of it. But right now it feels that more than 8 maps are worth being in the map pool that's all
25
#25
13 Frags +

keep badlands
fuck granary

keep badlands
fuck granary
26
#26
13 Frags +

i think kalinka is definitely playable right now. i'd have to go through/play bagel again to get a final idea on what needs to be changed, but i believe bagel is on its way there too. i like the idea of including more koth into the rotation, as lucrative said having just one map of its kind is kind of odd. would definitely like to see the replacement of granary/badlands/maybe metal for either/both of these maps

i think kalinka is definitely playable right now. i'd have to go through/play bagel again to get a final idea on what needs to be changed, but i believe bagel is on its way there too. i like the idea of including more koth into the rotation, as lucrative said having just one map of its kind is kind of odd. would definitely like to see the replacement of granary/badlands/maybe metal for either/both of these maps
27
#27
3 Frags +

I would love to see a few maps replaced with koth
-metalworks
-granary
+bagel
+coalplant

and maybe replace sunshine or badlands for warmfront if they are able to fix some of the problems it has

I would love to see a few maps replaced with koth
-metalworks
-granary
+bagel
+coalplant

and maybe replace sunshine or badlands for warmfront if they are able to fix some of the problems it has
28
#28
14 Frags +

my favorite map is the one with the beer bottles and the aliens

my favorite map is the one with the beer bottles and the aliens
29
#29
14 Frags +

personally i would love to see us free of granary and metalworks for some strong alternatives.
if this puts us closer to removing granary from the rotation, i support this cause 100%

personally i would love to see us free of granary and metalworks for some strong alternatives.
if this puts us closer to removing granary from the rotation, i support this cause 100%
30
#30
4 Frags +

I'm definitely in agreement that the current map rotation has gotten a bit stale.

Granary is an awful map to scrim/match on tbh.

I don't really know what maps I'd want to replace it though. Warmfront and Coalplant seem interesting. I've never gotten to play either of those.

I'm definitely in agreement that the current map rotation has gotten a bit stale.

Granary is an awful map to scrim/match on tbh.

I don't really know what maps I'd want to replace it though. Warmfront and Coalplant seem interesting. I've never gotten to play either of those.
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