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koth_bagel
1
#1
0 Frags +

Download - koth_bagel_rc2a - Current
Older versions: a7, a8, a9, a10, b1, b1a, b2, b3, b3a, b4, rc1, rc2

Vote for Bagel on the TF2 Workshop!

Fight back and forth over a disused power supply on the shore of the Bagel Reservoir, sandwiched by a pair of identical old industrial buildings.

A unique 6v6 king of the hill map, adapted from an experimental 72hr contest entry, with a mid point inspired by Gullywash.

Looking for feedback to help smooth it out into an enjoyable competitive 6v6 map.
Please report any bugs or issues with the map that may hinder it.

http://i.imgur.com/cyq7jeC.png

http://i.imgur.com/TeepG9J.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FafvpKO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MwbzabT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4bPuzkK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XnC9Bgy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MNnokY2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yixumJT.jpg

[h][b]Download - [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=8215]koth_bagel_rc2a[/url][/b] - Current[/h]
Older versions: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=5263]a7[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=5289]a8[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=5517]a9[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=5709]a10[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=6091]b1[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=6095]b1a[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=6211]b2[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=6626]b3[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=6632]b3a[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=6718]b4[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=7984]rc1[/url], [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=8203]rc2[/url]

[url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=791213600]Vote for Bagel on the TF2 Workshop![/url]

[i]Fight back and forth over a disused power supply on the shore of the Bagel Reservoir, sandwiched by a pair of identical old industrial buildings.[/i]

A unique 6v6 king of the hill map, adapted from an experimental 72hr contest entry, with a mid point inspired by Gullywash.

Looking for feedback to help smooth it out into an enjoyable competitive 6v6 map.
Please report any bugs or issues with the map that may hinder it.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/cyq7jeC.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/TeepG9J.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FafvpKO.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MwbzabT.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4bPuzkK.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XnC9Bgy.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MNnokY2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/yixumJT.jpg[/img]
2
#2
12 Frags +

Really enjoyed playing this map on TF2Maps, can't wait to see it continued on here!

Really enjoyed playing this map on TF2Maps, can't wait to see it continued on here!
3
#3
5 Frags +

Yrr, PM me. I can send you the feedback we got on Sunday on koth_bagel, if console didn't give it to you already.

Yrr, PM me. I can send you the feedback we got on Sunday on koth_bagel, if console didn't give it to you already.
4
#4
5 Frags +

oooh this looks nice

oooh this looks nice
5
#5
24 Frags +

it is impossible to dislike a map with such a tasty name

it is impossible to dislike a map with such a tasty name
6
#6
11 Frags +

reminds me of like mix between harvest and highpass except without the things that make those maps annoying

reminds me of like mix between harvest and highpass except without the things that make those maps annoying
7
#7
4 Frags +

For everyone who likes this map and ran around it / played a New Maps Pug on it, and would like a structured way to send feedback to Yrr, you can use this link: https://goo.gl/forms/L1DwCQ1hHkyIGA1W2] to fill out a survey that Yrr can read the results of.

For everyone who likes this map and ran around it / played a New Maps Pug on it, and would like a structured way to send feedback to Yrr, you can use this link: https://goo.gl/forms/L1DwCQ1hHkyIGA1W2] to fill out a survey that Yrr can read the results of.
8
#8
6 Frags +

I do like that you're bringing back elements from coalplant and I wonder how stuff like the under-the-point area are to be received if people pug on it

idk if I like how far back the entrances are to the lower area, I feel like you're always going to have to commit a scout to watching it

However I REALLY like the idea of a small spire control point and I hope you get plenty of feedback because I'm so tired of product being the ONLY koth map since coalplant got knocked out

I do like that you're bringing back elements from coalplant and I wonder how stuff like the under-the-point area are to be received if people pug on it

idk if I like how far back the entrances are to the lower area, I feel like you're always going to have to commit a scout to watching it

However I REALLY like the idea of a small spire control point and I hope you get plenty of feedback because I'm so tired of product being the ONLY koth map since coalplant got knocked out
9
#9
14 Frags +

koth is my favorite gamemode and i really wish you good luck with making this map

koth is my favorite gamemode and i really wish you good luck with making this map
10
#10
4 Frags +

tbh it should be called koth_donut cause mid has a nipple. Like Wise gully should be call cp_donut. DonutAroundTheNipple

tbh it should be called koth_donut cause mid has a nipple. Like Wise gully should be call cp_donut. DonutAroundTheNipple
11
#11
8 Frags +

Would be neato to see 2 koth maps in the map pool

Would be neato to see 2 koth maps in the map pool
12
#12
8 Frags +

im really excited to see these new maps lately and im hoping they end up getting put in rotation bc imo the current map rotation is getting kinda boring

im really excited to see these new maps lately and im hoping they end up getting put in rotation bc imo the current map rotation is getting kinda boring
13
#13
1 Frags +

Oh I remember playing this on the 72hr jam for TF2Maps.net.
A lot of people thought there weren't enough hp packs me included, hopefully you've improved that.
You should totally playtest this for 6v6 or HL, might have potential as the sightlines are looking decent.

Oh I remember playing this on the 72hr jam for TF2Maps.net.
A lot of people thought there weren't enough hp packs me included, hopefully you've improved that.
You should totally playtest this for 6v6 or HL, might have potential as the sightlines are looking decent.
14
#14
-1 Frags +
Percyyyyyim really excited to see these new maps lately and im hoping they end up getting put in rotation bc imo the current map rotation is getting kinda boring

I'd like to hope that this was Console and my doing as both this account and the one for the guy that made cp_atacama were fresh accounts to make these posts

[quote=Percyyyyy]im really excited to see these new maps lately and im hoping they end up getting put in rotation bc imo the current map rotation is getting kinda boring[/quote]

I'd like to hope that this was Console and my doing as both this account and the one for the guy that made cp_atacama were fresh accounts to make these posts
15
#15
1 Frags +

this map seems likes it has even crazier sight lines than viaduct which imo isn't a problem as long as you can close in the distance easily, but you can't unlike viaduct.

this map seems likes it has even crazier sight lines than viaduct which imo isn't a problem as long as you can close in the distance easily, but you can't unlike viaduct.
16
#16
3 Frags +

Thanks for the feedback so far, I'll definitely look into some of the issues raised for next version.

Thanks for the feedback so far, I'll definitely look into some of the issues raised for next version.
17
#17
7 Frags +

A8 Update
Download: koth_bagel_a8

Most changes made in response to feedback.
Rather than band-aid fixes, I've attempted to solve underlying issues that caused the reported problems (i.e. sightlines and openness).

Changelog:
- Made pipe route a straight line, fixing some sightline issues
- Added a wall to lower Main platform blocking view of valley
- Replaced small pipe in lower lobby with a lip and added a bigger, sloped pipe to make climbing to upper lobby easier
- Widened valley and added some small high ground to make holding there more possible
- Expanded rock to seperate mid and valley more, valley now cant be spammed from the point
- Misc clipping
- Moved some pickups in the underground route

Imgur Album

Individual Screenshots:

Show Content
[h]A8 Update[/h]
[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=5289]koth_bagel_a8[/url][/b]

Most changes made in response to feedback.
Rather than band-aid fixes, I've attempted to solve underlying issues that caused the reported problems (i.e. sightlines and openness).

Changelog:
- Made pipe route a straight line, fixing some sightline issues
- Added a wall to lower Main platform blocking view of valley
- Replaced small pipe in lower lobby with a lip and added a bigger, sloped pipe to make climbing to upper lobby easier
- Widened valley and added some small high ground to make holding there more possible
- Expanded rock to seperate mid and valley more, valley now cant be spammed from the point
- Misc clipping
- Moved some pickups in the underground route

[url=http://imgur.com/a/9Yw7r]Imgur Album[/url]

Individual Screenshots:
[spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/kuxKBHp.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/udE8YrQ.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/oCiNYYT.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/VtMR6GX.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EcqWih8.png[/img][/spoiler]
18
#18
3 Frags +

i need the bagel map
Keep the name it makes me feel nice
something to do with bagels I think

i need the bagel map
Keep the name it makes me feel nice
something to do with bagels I think
19
#19
4 Frags +

I think a8 fixes all of my problems with the map. I think after another another round of testing, you should be set to move onto beta! Congratulations!

I think a8 fixes all of my problems with the map. I think after another another round of testing, you should be set to move onto beta! Congratulations!
20
#20
4 Frags +

Looks like a really good map so far. Just a few things I found that I feel should be fixed.

http://i.imgur.com/CzGtMl0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pj08yyO.jpg

These two images show a cheese sniper sightline I found. Adjusting the size of the rocks on both sides should prevent these sightlines.

http://i.imgur.com/D3o6EzC.jpg

This is also a place where a sniper can easily look into lobby.

http://i.imgur.com/OeXpHY7.jpg

Putting a shutter door on this doorway I'm looking at in this photo should prevent this.

Other than that, great map so far.

Looks like a really good map so far. Just a few things I found that I feel should be fixed.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/CzGtMl0.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/pj08yyO.jpg[/img]

These two images show a cheese sniper sightline I found. Adjusting the size of the rocks on both sides should prevent these sightlines.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/D3o6EzC.jpg[/img]

This is also a place where a sniper can easily look into lobby.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/OeXpHY7.jpg[/img]

Putting a shutter door on this doorway I'm looking at in this photo should prevent this.

Other than that, great map so far.
21
#21
2 Frags +

This map looks great so far, I really like the layout, especially around the point. A lot of options for places to jump around and spam from, I imagine midfights could be really spectacular. I love koth and it would be really cool to see more than just product played, so I'm really excited to see where you take this map.

Two thoughts-
There doesn't seem to be much ammo around the point. Spamming could get really tricky between two soldiers and a demo.
The underground area beneath the point feels almost like an afterthought. I have no idea how it will play out in games, but it doesn't feel like as useful a route as it could be, somehow. Idk. I'd really love to play this map and I hope I get a chance to try it out soon :)

Great job so far. Good luck!

This map looks great so far, I really like the layout, especially around the point. A lot of options for places to jump around and spam from, I imagine midfights could be really spectacular. I love koth and it would be really cool to see more than just product played, so I'm really excited to see where you take this map.

Two thoughts-
There doesn't seem to be much ammo around the point. Spamming could get really tricky between two soldiers and a demo.
The underground area beneath the point feels almost like an afterthought. I have no idea how it will play out in games, but it doesn't feel like as useful a route as it could be, somehow. Idk. I'd really love to play this map and I hope I get a chance to try it out soon :)

Great job so far. Good luck!
22
#22
4 Frags +

Thanks for the continued feedback and support, I've been fixing the weird sightlines today and will have them out in a future version.

I'd like to get some more changes in before I put out the next version, though, so if anyone's able to get some pugs on it to see how the current version fares please do!

Thanks for the continued feedback and support, I've been fixing the weird sightlines today and will have them out in a future version.

I'd like to get some more changes in before I put out the next version, though, so if anyone's able to get some pugs on it to see how the current version fares please do!
23
#23
cp_sunshine, cp_cardinal
1 Frags +

Would definitely like to see tests run on this map; especially by decent-level players, looks like it might have a chance at being a good koth map for 6s (finally).

Would definitely like to see tests run on this map; especially by decent-level players, looks like it might have a chance at being a good koth map for 6s (finally).
24
#24
2 Frags +

I'm going to ninja the common sentiment from some of the responses on Sunday.

Basically, the under seems like an after thought that some of us forgot about. Maybe flipping the entrance to under and the side area allowing for better accessibility. As well as that, borrowing from the ashville idea of seeing the under area from the point by a transparent area might be a great asset. I also heard a few complaints about yard being big. Maybe shrinking the length of yard by 25-50%. Lastly, you still have a few cheeky sightlines between rock and the lower lobby area that are still a bit nuts.

I'm going to ninja the common sentiment from some of the responses on Sunday.

Basically, the under seems like an after thought that some of us forgot about. Maybe flipping the entrance to under and the side area allowing for better accessibility. As well as that, borrowing from the ashville idea of seeing the under area from the point by a transparent area might be a great asset. I also heard a few complaints about yard being big. Maybe shrinking the length of yard by 25-50%. Lastly, you still have a few cheeky sightlines between rock and the lower lobby area that are still a bit nuts.
25
#25
2 Frags +

Thanks, I've fixed the sightlines ready for next version but I'll see what I can do with the underground route and other feedback.

Thanks, I've fixed the sightlines ready for next version but I'll see what I can do with the underground route and other feedback.
26
#26
6 Frags +

A9 Update
Download: koth_bagel_a9

Mostly making the underground route more appealing and viable while still being contestable.
Also replaced the rock with geometry, allowing some jumps to be more obvious and less reliant on weird collision models.

Changelog:
Underground route
- Widened Undeground route entrance, added some platforms and moved the pickups, as well as lighting it better.
- Rotated central column 90 degrees, allowing combat longways across the underground route.
- Added window to central column and raised obstruction for better visibility across it.
Rock
- Replaced rock with small house and vent to make the jumps and platforms more obvious.
- Also improves visibility to the underground route exit.
Misc
- Changed some small ammopacks to medium around mid.
- Fixed some sightlines all over.
- Removed or raised a couple doorway arches where they interrupted rollouts.
- Misc. visual changes.

Imgur album

Individual screenshots:

Show Content
[h]A9 Update[/h]
[b]Download: [url=https://tf2maps.net/downloads/bagel.2100/download?version=5517]koth_bagel_a9[/url][/b]

Mostly making the underground route more appealing and viable while still being contestable.
Also replaced the rock with geometry, allowing some jumps to be more obvious and less reliant on weird collision models.

Changelog:
Underground route
- Widened Undeground route entrance, added some platforms and moved the pickups, as well as lighting it better.
- Rotated central column 90 degrees, allowing combat longways across the underground route.
- Added window to central column and raised obstruction for better visibility across it.
Rock
- Replaced rock with small house and vent to make the jumps and platforms more obvious.
- Also improves visibility to the underground route exit.
Misc
- Changed some small ammopacks to medium around mid.
- Fixed some sightlines all over.
- Removed or raised a couple doorway arches where they interrupted rollouts.
- Misc. visual changes.

[url=http://imgur.com/a/EZ42X]Imgur album[/url]

Individual screenshots:
[spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/GQ1deXp.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/vr5B8O3.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dj7yfEw.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/s7BD6YB.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JkIcVOb.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bSSoy8P.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dSMIB6X.png[/img][/spoiler]
27
#27
8 Frags +

Hey, played this in some IM+ pugs. Here was our feedback:

Sniper sightlines are huge (from top left out of spawn you can see everything basically)

Tunnel under the map is irrelevant

Lobby is unnecessarily big and convoluted

Mid cap time is insanely long, it takes over twice as long to cap as viaduct (12 seconds to 25 seconds)

Mid capture area is very small, one sticky can hit anyone trying to cap, some combo of reducing cap time and increasing cap area would be nice, but at least reduce the cap time

Hey, played this in some IM+ pugs. Here was our feedback:

Sniper sightlines are huge (from top left out of spawn you can see everything basically)

Tunnel under the map is irrelevant

Lobby is unnecessarily big and convoluted

Mid cap time is insanely long, it takes over twice as long to cap as viaduct (12 seconds to 25 seconds)

Mid capture area is very small, one sticky can hit anyone trying to cap, some combo of reducing cap time and increasing cap area would be nice, but at least reduce the cap time
28
#28
7 Frags +

I brought up an idea during the pug and I think it'd be interesting to at least try it out.

Mid cap is just stupid right now in general, so you can

a) increase the cap size area + decrease it to 15s ish

OR

b) keep the cap size area + decrease it to something really small like 5-8 seconds

I do think b) would be worth giving a shot? I can't think of any KOTH map that has ever had anything like it so we don't have much reference to whether it'd be awful or fun and unique.

I brought up an idea during the pug and I think it'd be interesting to at least try it out.

Mid cap is just stupid right now in general, so you can

a) increase the cap size area + decrease it to 15s ish

OR

b) keep the cap size area + decrease it to something really small like 5-8 seconds

I do think b) would be worth giving a shot? I can't think of any KOTH map that has ever had anything like it so we don't have much reference to whether it'd be awful or fun and unique.
29
#29
4 Frags +

Thank you all so much for the feedback from that game, this is feedback that'll lead to some much larger changes and I'll look on addressing as much as I can for next version!

Thank you all so much for the feedback from that game, this is feedback that'll lead to some much larger changes and I'll look on addressing as much as I can for next version!
30
#30
6 Frags +

Just noticed I didn't say this last night but besides what I said earlier the map was really fun for the most part, nice work with it man

Just noticed I didn't say this last night but besides what I said earlier the map was really fun for the most part, nice work with it man
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