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TF2 Update on Matchmaking
1
#1
0 Frags +

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=23062

TF2 TeamThanks for all of your feedback over the last couple weeks. In our previous post, we talked about a number of issues with the Meet Your Match update and what we were doing to address them. Here's a quick recap on what has happened since then:

Matchmaking:
  • We have been working hard to improve the matchmaking system, greatly reducing queue times and eliminating most causes of errors when attempting to play. On average, queue times are now below ninety seconds for most players.
  • There are still some issues with lower population regions and game modes that we are looking into.
    We have identified and corrected several issues where players weren't being sent to fill empty slots for in-progress matches. There should be far fewer matches where this happens, and we will continue making improvements here.

Casual Mode:
  • Players are now able to specify the maps they would like play on when using matchmaking. However, it is sometimes the case that players joining in-progress matches (aka "late join") end up on maps they did not select. This will be fixed in an upcoming update.
  • Abandon penalties have been removed, which means players can come and go as they please.
  • Vote-kicking has been added. Players that are kicked retain the experience they've earned to that point, in order to reduce the likelihood of players using the system to grief others.

Next, we would like to give you a quick overview of the things we are working on, and go over some of the issues you raise as needing more attention and work.

Abandons in Competitive Mode:
  • We are going to make abandoning penalties much harsher. The current system increases matchmaking ban times based on the number of abandons over a period of time. We are making a change to more quickly move serial abandoners into really long ban times. We will also subtract the maximum number of rank points possible, per abandon. The amount lost will be far higher than what could normally be lost in a completed match.
  • In addition, we are investigating several options to offset the impact abandoners have on games that are in-progress. More on that when we have details to share.

Griefing in matchmaking:
  • We are working on systems that will give players with high numbers of in-game reports automated cooldowns from matchmaking, to discourage disruptive behavior.
  • As a side note, you can report players while in-game by clicking the "Report Player" button - located in the "Play" section on the main menu.

High ping and queue times:
  • There are still cases where players can wait longer than we'd like. This is more common in lower population regions and game modes in Casual Mode matchmaking, and the result is that players sometimes end up on a server where their ping is higher than normal.
  • One solution we are investigating is allowing matches to start with fewer than 24 players -- in cases where there are not enough available players to form a complete match, or when the players being considered are too far away. The system will instead prefer to start a smaller match more quickly, with a more appropriate ping, filling the remaining slots as more players become available.

Experience and incomplete matches in casual:
  • Right now, leaving a casual match results in no experience being earned. We are looking at changing this to avoid penalizing players for having to leave after investing significant amounts of time into a match, while still providing rewards for playing matches to completion.

We are monitoring the game around the clock, and we continue to read all your feedback and suggestions. Thanks again for taking the time to help improve TF.
http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=23062

[quote=TF2 Team]
Thanks for all of your feedback over the last couple weeks. In our previous post, we talked about a number of issues with the Meet Your Match update and what we were doing to address them. Here's a quick recap on what has happened since then:

Matchmaking:

[list]
[*] We have been working hard to improve the matchmaking system, greatly reducing queue times and eliminating most causes of errors when attempting to play. On average, queue times are now below ninety seconds for most players.
[*] There are still some issues with lower population regions and game modes that we are looking into.
We have identified and corrected several issues where players weren't being sent to fill empty slots for in-progress matches. There should be far fewer matches where this happens, and we will continue making improvements here.
[/list]

Casual Mode:

[list]
[*] Players are now able to specify the maps they would like play on when using matchmaking. However, it is sometimes the case that players joining in-progress matches (aka "late join") end up on maps they did not select. This will be fixed in an upcoming update.
[*] Abandon penalties have been removed, which means players can come and go as they please.
[*] Vote-kicking has been added. Players that are kicked retain the experience they've earned to that point, in order to reduce the likelihood of players using the system to grief others.
[/list]

Next, we would like to give you a quick overview of the things we are working on, and go over some of the issues you raise as needing more attention and work.

Abandons in Competitive Mode:

[list]
[*] We are going to make abandoning penalties much harsher. The current system increases matchmaking ban times based on the number of abandons over a period of time. We are making a change to more quickly move serial abandoners into really long ban times. We will also subtract the maximum number of rank points possible, per abandon. The amount lost will be far higher than what could normally be lost in a completed match.
[*] In addition, we are investigating several options to offset the impact abandoners have on games that are in-progress. More on that when we have details to share.
[/list]

Griefing in matchmaking:

[list]
[*] We are working on systems that will give players with high numbers of in-game reports automated cooldowns from matchmaking, to discourage disruptive behavior.
[*] As a side note, you can report players while in-game by clicking the "Report Player" button - located in the "Play" section on the main menu.
[/list]

High ping and queue times:

[list]
[*] There are still cases where players can wait longer than we'd like. This is more common in lower population regions and game modes in Casual Mode matchmaking, and the result is that players sometimes end up on a server where their ping is higher than normal.
[*] One solution we are investigating is allowing matches to start with fewer than 24 players -- in cases where there are not enough available players to form a complete match, or when the players being considered are too far away. The system will instead prefer to start a smaller match more quickly, with a more appropriate ping, filling the remaining slots as more players become available.
[/list]

Experience and incomplete matches in casual:

[list]
[*] Right now, leaving a casual match results in no experience being earned. We are looking at changing this to avoid penalizing players for having to leave after investing significant amounts of time into a match, while still providing rewards for playing matches to completion.
[/list]

We are monitoring the game around the clock, and we continue to read all your feedback and suggestions. Thanks again for taking the time to help improve TF.
[/quote]
2
#2
27 Frags +
ValveWe are going to make abandoning penalties much harsher. The current system increases matchmaking ban times based on the number of abandons over a period of time. We are making a change to more quickly move serial abandoners into really long ban times. We will also subtract the maximum number of rank points possible, per abandon. The amount lost will be far higher than what could normally be lost in a completed match.
[quote=Valve]We are going to make abandoning penalties much harsher. The current system increases matchmaking ban times based on the number of abandons over a period of time. We are making a change to more quickly move serial abandoners into really long ban times. We will also subtract the maximum number of rank points possible, per abandon. The amount lost will be far higher than what could normally be lost in a completed match.[/quote]
3
#3
35 Frags +

they are moving in the right direction. this is good.

they are moving in the right direction. this is good.
4
#4
marketplace.tf
59 Frags +

Valve is really making good on their promise of significantly improved communication. Hope this is a trend and not a one-off.

Valve is really making good on their promise of significantly improved communication. Hope this is a trend and not a one-off.
5
#5
Patch Notes
-39 Frags +

TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.

TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.
6
#6
marketplace.tf
54 Frags +
wickedplayer494TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.

This post doesn't really make sense man

[quote=wickedplayer494]TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.[/quote]

This post doesn't really make sense man
7
#7
1 Frags +
wickedplayer494TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.

is there anyone buying a 1070 who's going to have a rig that doesn't pull 200fps? i feel like that's a massive non issue compared to just about anything else

[quote=wickedplayer494]TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.[/quote]

is there anyone buying a 1070 who's going to have a rig that doesn't pull 200fps? i feel like that's a massive non issue compared to just about anything else
8
#8
Patch Notes
-8 Frags +
Geel9wickedplayer494TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.
This post doesn't really make sense man

The top post on "that other place with those weird aliens" is literally all about the fact that Valve needs to step their stuff up when it comes to actually taking advantage of people with high-performance systems.

[quote=Geel9][quote=wickedplayer494]TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.[/quote]

This post doesn't really make sense man[/quote]
The top post on "that other place with those weird aliens" is literally all about the fact that Valve needs to step their stuff up when it comes to actually taking advantage of people with high-performance systems.
9
#9
marketplace.tf
16 Frags +
wickedplayer494Geel9wickedplayer494TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.
This post doesn't really make sense man
The top post on "that other place with those weird aliens" is literally all about the fact that Valve needs to step their stuff up when it comes to actually taking advantage of people with high-performance systems.

But TF2's major bottleneck has always been the CPU. You can't just move that shit onto the GPU in most cases.

I assume you're talking about, like, more particle effects, higher quality textures, etc. Which I guess would be nice but I think that there are higher priorities.

[quote=wickedplayer494][quote=Geel9][quote=wickedplayer494]TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.[/quote]

This post doesn't really make sense man[/quote]
The top post on "that other place with those weird aliens" is literally all about the fact that Valve needs to step their stuff up when it comes to actually taking advantage of people with high-performance systems.[/quote]

But TF2's major bottleneck has always been the CPU. You can't just move that shit onto the GPU in most cases.

I assume you're talking about, like, more particle effects, higher quality textures, etc. Which I guess would be nice but I think that there are higher priorities.
10
#10
15 Frags +

I like this, this is good. +1 valve

I like this, this is good. +1 valve
11
#11
8 Frags +

So still nothing about matchmaking purgatory. cool

So still nothing about [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/34972/matchmaking-purgatory]matchmaking purgatory[/url]. cool
12
#12
16 Frags +

All I want is the option to only play with less than 70 ping

All I want is the option to only play with less than 70 ping
13
#13
52 Frags +

the mm system NEEDS 10 placement matches and a revamped rank system like dota/cs. people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate (common for mm systems like valve's) will always be fresh meat and play with players who might not be at their skill level.

i'm happy they're addressing a lot of the problems mm has but this is easily the biggest imo.

the mm system NEEDS 10 placement matches and a revamped rank system like dota/cs. people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate (common for mm systems like valve's) will always be fresh meat and play with players who might not be at their skill level.

i'm happy they're addressing a lot of the problems mm has but this is easily the biggest imo.
14
#14
61 Frags +

hello ban the fucking #1 hacker pls?

hello ban the fucking #1 hacker pls?
15
#15
5 Frags +
mathsadpeople who play right now and hold a 50% winrate

i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?

[quote=mathsad]people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate [/quote]

i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?
16
#16
17 Frags +
Tame_Impalamathsadpeople who play right now and hold a 50% winrate
i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?

I think problem is they're at the lowest rank with people with people who have lower winrates.

[quote=Tame_Impala][quote=mathsad]people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate [/quote]

i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?[/quote]

I think problem is they're at the lowest rank with people with people who have lower winrates.
17
#17
7 Frags +
ValveIn addition, we are investigating several options to offset the impact abandoners have on games that are in-progress. More on that when we have details to share.

Make it so if the game is already 1-0 or 1-1, the abandon won't end the game (keeping making the game safe to leave if someone leaves in the first round).

ValveThere are still cases where players can wait longer than we'd like. This is more common in lower population regions and game modes in Casual Mode matchmaking, and the result is that players sometimes end up on a server where their ping is higher than normal.

I'd rather wait 10 minutes to start a match with ping below 100ms than wait 10 seconds to play with 260ms.

[quote=Valve]In addition, we are investigating several options to offset the impact abandoners have on games that are in-progress. More on that when we have details to share.[/quote]
Make it so if the game is already 1-0 or 1-1, the abandon won't end the game (keeping making the game safe to leave if someone leaves in the first round).

[quote=Valve]There are still cases where players can wait longer than we'd like. This is more common in lower population regions and game modes in Casual Mode matchmaking, and the result is that players sometimes end up on a server where their ping is higher than normal.[/quote]
I'd rather wait 10 minutes to start a match with ping below 100ms than wait 10 seconds to play with 260ms.
18
#18
25 Frags +

Good job valve you actually followed up!

now there are still some problems, however:

-the system is basically whoever plays more gets a higher rank, or whoever six-stacks. When everyone starts at rank 1, if you're a very middle of the road player, you're going to lose/win half of your games, depending on the skill of the player who is ranked 1 instead of higher because of a lack of placement matches, and are going to stay there yourself.

-there's a memory leak (i think? some error to do with dx9 shaders repeating over and over) in matchmaking which basically makes it unplayable for some people after a game's worth of play, or if it's a long game, you're fucked with 30-40 FPS by the end of it

-viewmodel fov: please cap it at at least 70, minmode viewmodels look alright with 70, but at 54 even min viewmodels look like you're holding it right in front of your face.

-you shouldnt have to be booted to the main menu after every casual game. casual is great, don't get me wrong, but it could be so easily improved by giving the option to keep playing. Or just do the CS:GO system of vote for the next map, which, to be honest, would be great.

-not related to the core aspects of the game, but since this game just got it's competitive update, i'd love for valve to actually point players toward actual competitive in some way shape or form-- in game. One way is to fix the stream UI to always be open-- that led a lot of players in, and boosted view counts. Now that's toggled off and as far as i can tell nobody clicks the button to turn it on, and since it was toggled off, viewer counts have dropped. If the problem is showing the community trashy streams, then maybe make a box that appears when there are competitive game(s) going on. That notification that the ESEA grand finals were happening was great, and I'd like to see more of those.

Good job valve you actually followed up!

now there are still some problems, however:

-the system is basically whoever plays more gets a higher rank, or whoever six-stacks. When everyone starts at rank 1, if you're a very middle of the road player, you're going to lose/win half of your games, depending on the skill of the player who is ranked 1 instead of higher because of a lack of placement matches, and are going to stay there yourself.

-there's a memory leak (i think? some error to do with dx9 shaders repeating over and over) in matchmaking which basically makes it unplayable for some people after a game's worth of play, or if it's a long game, you're fucked with 30-40 FPS by the end of it

-viewmodel fov: please cap it at at least 70, minmode viewmodels look alright with 70, but at 54 even min viewmodels look like you're holding it right in front of your face.

-you shouldnt have to be booted to the main menu after every casual game. casual is great, don't get me wrong, but it could be so easily improved by giving the option to keep playing. Or just do the CS:GO system of vote for the next map, which, to be honest, would be great.

-not related to the core aspects of the game, but since this game just got it's competitive update, i'd love for valve to actually point players toward actual competitive in some way shape or form-- in game. One way is to fix the stream UI to always be open-- that led a lot of players in, and boosted view counts. Now that's toggled off and as far as i can tell nobody clicks the button to turn it on, and since it was toggled off, viewer counts have dropped. If the problem is showing the community trashy streams, then maybe make a box that appears when there are competitive game(s) going on. That notification that the ESEA grand finals were happening was great, and I'd like to see more of those.
19
#19
13 Frags +

Hope they use csgo's system where frequent abandoners end up with week long bans.

Hope they use csgo's system where frequent abandoners end up with week long bans.
20
#20
2 Frags +

This is kinda refreshing

This is kinda refreshing
21
#21
4 Frags +
BazmurTame_Impalamathsadpeople who play right now and hold a 50% winrate
i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?

I think problem is they're at the lowest rank with people with people who have lower winrates.

Ok, thanks. I guess the obvious solution is placement matches?

[quote=Bazmur][quote=Tame_Impala][quote=mathsad]people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate [/quote]

i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?[/quote]

I think problem is they're at the lowest rank with people with people who have lower winrates.[/quote]
Ok, thanks. I guess the obvious solution is placement matches?
22
#22
24 Frags +
Tame_Impalamathsadpeople who play right now and hold a 50% winrate
i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?

the system ideally would promote you if you had a 50% winrate at the lowest rank, and would keep promoting you at 50% until you reach the rank at which valve would like the largest bulk of players to exist.

http://i.imgur.com/GOb3bJa.png

With the current distribution model, any player that isnt in the top 50% of players stays at rank 1 eternally. This is pretty terrible for obvious reasons, the largest of which being that balance essentially doesnt exist and players are progressively more sparse as you rank up.

In an ideal distribution model, the bulk of the players exist in a middle rank, which gives brand new or completely clueless players more balanced matches AND gives the top level and most experienced players a larger pool of players to choose from. This ranking system would also just make more sense logistically in the terms of a ranking system. if you take a look at CS ranked player distribution, it forms a bell curve similar to what my graph looks like

[quote=Tame_Impala][quote=mathsad]people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate [/quote]

i dont understand why people point to a 50% winrate being bad, isnt a 50% winrate player someone who is honestly ranked?[/quote]

the system ideally would promote you if you had a 50% winrate at the lowest rank, and would keep promoting you at 50% until you reach the rank at which valve would like the largest bulk of players to exist.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/GOb3bJa.png[/img]

With the current distribution model, any player that isnt in the top 50% of players stays at rank 1 eternally. This is pretty terrible for obvious reasons, the largest of which being that balance essentially doesnt exist and players are progressively more sparse as you rank up.

In an ideal distribution model, the bulk of the players exist in a middle rank, which gives brand new or completely clueless players more balanced matches AND gives the top level and most experienced players a larger pool of players to choose from. This ranking system would also just make more sense logistically in the terms of a ranking system. if you take a look at CS ranked player distribution, it forms a bell curve similar to what my graph looks like
23
#23
8 Frags +

Do you guys remember posts like these?

I appreciate them making these kind of posts now with the MyM issues, but sadly I believe that they wont happen anymore after the major issues are gone.

Do you guys remember posts like [url=http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1656]these?[/url]

I appreciate them making these kind of posts now with the MyM issues, but sadly I believe that they wont happen anymore after the major issues are gone.
24
#24
12 Frags +
DamnEasyhello ban the fucking #1 hacker pls?

We are monitoring the game around the clock.

B U L L S H I T

[quote=DamnEasy]hello ban the fucking #1 hacker pls?[/quote]
We are monitoring the game around the clock.

B U L L S H I T
25
#25
5 Frags +
SchweppesHope they use csgo's system where frequent abandoners end up with week long bans.

Isn't that already happening? I coulda swore Yttrium said something about almost getting a weeklong ban.

[quote=Schweppes]Hope they use csgo's system where frequent abandoners end up with week long bans.[/quote]

Isn't that already happening? I coulda swore Yttrium said something about almost getting a weeklong ban.
26
#26
1 Frags +
mathsadthe mm system NEEDS 10 placement matches and a revamped rank system like dota/cs. people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate (common for mm systems like valve's) will always be fresh meat and play with players who might not be at their skill level.

i'm happy they're addressing a lot of the problems mm has but this is easily the biggest imo.

In Hearthstone you don't lose 'elo' in the first few ranks. This allows players that just play the game long enough to crawl up from rank 25 to 20 and then stay there if they never do well again. Playing with bad players with 50+ games under their belt is generally better than playing with completely brand new players.

I don't know if this will work well in TF2 but not losing 'elo' until you're rank 4 may be a good alternative to placement matches. Of course this would mean introducing seasons where you de-rank 3 levels every season.

[quote=mathsad]the mm system NEEDS 10 placement matches and a revamped rank system like dota/cs. people who play right now and hold a 50% winrate (common for mm systems like valve's) will always be fresh meat and play with players who might not be at their skill level.

i'm happy they're addressing a lot of the problems mm has but this is easily the biggest imo.[/quote]

In Hearthstone you don't lose 'elo' in the first few ranks. This allows players that just play the game long enough to crawl up from rank 25 to 20 and then stay there if they never do well again. Playing with bad players with 50+ games under their belt is generally better than playing with completely brand new players.

I don't know if this will work well in TF2 but not losing 'elo' until you're rank 4 may be a good alternative to placement matches. Of course this would mean introducing seasons where you de-rank 3 levels every season.
27
#27
10 Frags +
wickedplayer494TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.

Bad news everyone: New GPUs mean worse performance for everyone.
If you don't deal with the TFLOPs they will leak out and steal your fps.

[quote=wickedplayer494]TLDR: still nothing for how the hell they're going to deal with the greatly increased power of GTX 1070s, 1080s, and in the not too distant future, RX 490s.[/quote]
Bad news everyone: New GPUs mean worse performance for everyone.
If you don't deal with the TFLOPs they will leak out and steal your fps.
28
#28
2 Frags +

It's nice to see a blog post update, and I sincerely hope this becomes a regular trend. They cannot be silent for any longer if they want MM to actually succeed.

It's nice to see a blog post update, and I sincerely hope this becomes a regular trend. They cannot be silent for any longer if they want MM to actually succeed.
29
#29
12 Frags +

All welcome changes, sure, I just don't understand why these obvious problems weren't adressed in the beta.

All welcome changes, sure, I just don't understand why these obvious problems weren't adressed in the beta.
30
#30
26 Frags +

There's still no feel of a reward, playing the competitive matchmaking/casual. I think if they added a Overwatch's Loot Box similar system in Tf2, it would bring more players to matchmaking, Just award players with loot boxes that contain random hats/skins after each level in casual/competitive and then people will start playing.

Just saying that it's not all about how MM functions, but it's also about what can you get from playing it and how can it be more popular.

There's still no feel of a reward, playing the competitive matchmaking/casual. I think if they added a Overwatch's Loot Box similar system in Tf2, it would bring more players to matchmaking, Just award players with loot boxes that contain random hats/skins after each level in casual/competitive and then people will start playing.

Just saying that it's not all about how MM functions, but it's also about what can you get from playing it and how can it be more popular.
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