Hi, my name is Radioactive Panda I am the person who created the thread regarding this even on the community forum. First of all I would like to thank you guys for hosting an event to help the new players and think that it is a great approach to new players. What I'm here for is to discuss the content that was spoken during the event and what corrections there should be if any. What I really would like is a discussion between the hosts. I realize that the 2 communities have gotten off on the wrong foot but I would like to put that in the past and discuss the content.
First of all I do take mvm semi-seriously. It is about killing bots but there are things that once learned makes this game mode a very flexible and relaxing game even if a person is doing it just for tours. I personally have over 2000 hours playing mvm alone with over 4k hours total in tf2. (I have an alt with play time on it) I also have about 500k-600k robots destroyed total with 1 reset at 250k robots destroyed due most likely to the creation of my alt. My tour count is at 160ish for 2 city and 70ish for mecha but I have stopped completing tours and have done repeats for a very long time.
Moving on to the actual content of the video. There are many things which are said very nicely which will NOT be mentioned here. Please note that for the remainder of this post it will sound very condescending (i'm not sure if it's the correct word) but in the end I hope the end product is a better understanding on both parties as well as a better guide for the future. Please disregard the horrible grammar and such as I am not good with writing.
Bootcamp vs mann up:
- interesting console commands thanks.
-The exact wording on money burnt is a bit unclear but I think it was just the moment
-didn't emphasize that on other tours you can now gain aus but it was a later added detail that got brushed off
Class Roles:
-put a huge emphasis on mvm speed running and yet the whole mvm forum haven't even heard of or really cared about it.
-Thank you for saying basically any class set up works
-why is he soldier's role to stop giants? is stun that important to have it emphasized throught the whole tutorial? Don't mind that soldier is just bellow demo in crowd killing potential and surpassing it in some cases.
-Engie for ammo agreed thanks.
-Brief mention of pyro for tank but didn't mention tank for the rest of the video, farther breakdown on the pyro section
-med is very necessary?? No, it isn't.
Scout:
-nice milk description
-focus on resis more than move speed which I can see why and will try and discuss later. This also stem into pyro and medic.
-should probably have mentioned that minicrit negate fall off damage as not everyone know game mechanics.
Soldier: (this one needs much farther discussion)
-why is the emphasis on the soldier to stun? As that is where the emphasis is on.
-previous probably led to rocket spec is the most important upgrade
-extremely wrong description of beggars soldier. "crit + load up rocket for tank" is wrong.
-upgrade path example on soldier was horrid. you had an really good upgrade path on demo why not put it on soldier?
-I want to know why you guys think soldiers is good on botbash with the 4 soldier strategy. from the video it sounds like banners is the reason why.
demo:
-nicely done on demo really not much to say.
-I wouldn't call demo necessary, as mentioned before you said 4 soldier botbash, demo obviously wasn't there. (yes I know it lacks uber meds for the majority of the game but with your description of soldier only being stunning for giant it gives a counter talking of what you are saying)
heavy:
-promoted medic pocketing heavy for heals.
-gru isn't mentioned as an alternative even if it's one of the most meta item for heavy
-Heavy being bad on tank (discussion on this is needed) and give the example of 100 damage dealt by heavy vs another class. But it doesn't say anything regarding the speed in which the different classes deal those damages or the actual dps between classes. Aka factor in reload time which heavy doesn't have.
-doesn't mention resistance on heavy before damage even if he is the main damage soaker. (ramp up damage is a great thing/staying alive as mentioned later)
medic:
-mention charging at giants for charge which is stupid even if with resistance if you are being focused down on. there is a time for it but really not a good advice until the person learns when he or she is not being targeted.
-The rest is nicely done even if I don't agree with some of it.
pyro:
-niche class? no
-nice advice on staying alive
-However, you are emphasizing on resistance too much to the point of getting resistance maxed out before damage, This actually hurt pyro as he's a very powerful class before most class can max out.
-why say maybe phlog. phlog is part of the meta as pyro.
-why even emphasize on reflecting rockets. You are going to be unable to reflect enough consistently to be of reliance. And not to mention medic shielding and how that effect the rocket.
--pyro replace heavy as tank. really?
-airblast force to push giants. First you can't do it anymore. 2nd before then it was impossible to aim when a pyro is airblasting a bot up and down previously.
sniper:
-nice overall.
-I would add that damage increase dps on killing giants however small that is and charge speed is nice for the giant quickfix med/less penalty taking some time to line up a shot on a giant. (charge final shot to kill giant quickfix to prevent pop)
spy:
-Weakest?
-fills no roes?
you mention money on spy, killing giants/sapping bots, and in your case replaces demo. yet it fills no roles? And all scout has to do is get money, milk, and mark. Why can spy not be get money and kill the bots. Direct damage/killing of the bot?
-upgrade sapper first... no
-giant quickfix is 5* stabs without assist.
canteen:
-ammo canteen is not useless.
-canteen duration is 5 seconds unless is used by share by med.
positioning:
-2 city is the only tour with 2 drop areas (mann-works aside and even then its front)
-why are you emphasizing having the other people not helping on top of the stair area? A heavy can move. This is huge.
-said engie helps top while saying the bottom crate is the best spot previously
questioning:
-cow manger explanation was... weird. damage penalty is only on buildings.
-you should briefly heal a scout if you have overheal mastery to slow the health decay.
That is the end of the video for the most part. I really would like to discuss what each classes' role is and what roles are required for mvm. Also Talk about bot ai more/positioning and the basics of that.
Thank you for reading and may we have a peaceful discussion.
edit: fixed 5 stab for med without assist. didn't know what math I was thinking.
Hi, my name is Radioactive Panda I am the person who created the thread regarding this even on the community forum. First of all I would like to thank you guys for hosting an event to help the new players and think that it is a great approach to new players. What I'm here for is to discuss the content that was spoken during the event and what corrections there should be if any. What I really would like is a discussion between the hosts. I realize that the 2 communities have gotten off on the wrong foot but I would like to put that in the past and discuss the content.
First of all I do take mvm semi-seriously. It is about killing bots but there are things that once learned makes this game mode a very flexible and relaxing game even if a person is doing it just for tours. I personally have over 2000 hours playing mvm alone with over 4k hours total in tf2. (I have an alt with play time on it) I also have about 500k-600k robots destroyed total with 1 reset at 250k robots destroyed due most likely to the creation of my alt. My tour count is at 160ish for 2 city and 70ish for mecha but I have stopped completing tours and have done repeats for a very long time.
Moving on to the actual content of the video. There are many things which are said very nicely which will NOT be mentioned here. Please note that for the remainder of this post it will sound very condescending (i'm not sure if it's the correct word) but in the end I hope the end product is a better understanding on both parties as well as a better guide for the future. Please disregard the horrible grammar and such as I am not good with writing.
Bootcamp vs mann up:
- interesting console commands thanks.
-The exact wording on money burnt is a bit unclear but I think it was just the moment
-didn't emphasize that on other tours you can now gain aus but it was a later added detail that got brushed off
Class Roles:
-put a huge emphasis on mvm speed running and yet the whole mvm forum haven't even heard of or really cared about it.
-Thank you for saying basically any class set up works
-why is he soldier's role to stop giants? is stun that important to have it emphasized throught the whole tutorial? Don't mind that soldier is just bellow demo in crowd killing potential and surpassing it in some cases.
-Engie for ammo agreed thanks.
-Brief mention of pyro for tank but didn't mention tank for the rest of the video, farther breakdown on the pyro section
-med is very necessary?? No, it isn't.
Scout:
-nice milk description
-focus on resis more than move speed which I can see why and will try and discuss later. This also stem into pyro and medic.
-should probably have mentioned that minicrit negate fall off damage as not everyone know game mechanics.
Soldier: (this one needs much farther discussion)
-why is the emphasis on the soldier to stun? As that is where the emphasis is on.
-previous probably led to rocket spec is the most important upgrade
-extremely wrong description of beggars soldier. "crit + load up rocket for tank" is wrong.
-upgrade path example on soldier was horrid. you had an really good upgrade path on demo why not put it on soldier?
-I want to know why you guys think soldiers is good on botbash with the 4 soldier strategy. from the video it sounds like banners is the reason why.
demo:
-nicely done on demo really not much to say.
-I wouldn't call demo necessary, as mentioned before you said 4 soldier botbash, demo obviously wasn't there. (yes I know it lacks uber meds for the majority of the game but with your description of soldier only being stunning for giant it gives a counter talking of what you are saying)
heavy:
-promoted medic pocketing heavy for heals.
-gru isn't mentioned as an alternative even if it's one of the most meta item for heavy
-Heavy being bad on tank (discussion on this is needed) and give the example of 100 damage dealt by heavy vs another class. But it doesn't say anything regarding the speed in which the different classes deal those damages or the actual dps between classes. Aka factor in reload time which heavy doesn't have.
-doesn't mention resistance on heavy before damage even if he is the main damage soaker. (ramp up damage is a great thing/staying alive as mentioned later)
medic:
-mention charging at giants for charge which is stupid even if with resistance if you are being focused down on. there is a time for it but really not a good advice until the person learns when he or she is not being targeted.
-The rest is nicely done even if I don't agree with some of it.
pyro:
-niche class? no
-nice advice on staying alive
-However, you are emphasizing on resistance too much to the point of getting resistance maxed out before damage, This actually hurt pyro as he's a very powerful class before most class can max out.
-why say maybe phlog. phlog is part of the meta as pyro.
-why even emphasize on reflecting rockets. You are going to be unable to reflect enough consistently to be of reliance. And not to mention medic shielding and how that effect the rocket.
--pyro replace heavy as tank. really?
-airblast force to push giants. First you can't do it anymore. 2nd before then it was impossible to aim when a pyro is airblasting a bot up and down previously.
sniper:
-nice overall.
-I would add that damage increase dps on killing giants however small that is and charge speed is nice for the giant quickfix med/less penalty taking some time to line up a shot on a giant. (charge final shot to kill giant quickfix to prevent pop)
spy:
-Weakest?
-fills no roes?
you mention money on spy, killing giants/sapping bots, and in your case replaces demo. yet it fills no roles? And all scout has to do is get money, milk, and mark. Why can spy not be get money and kill the bots. Direct damage/killing of the bot?
-upgrade sapper first... no
-giant quickfix is 5* stabs without assist.
canteen:
-ammo canteen is not useless.
-canteen duration is 5 seconds unless is used by share by med.
positioning:
-2 city is the only tour with 2 drop areas (mann-works aside and even then its front)
-why are you emphasizing having the other people not helping on top of the stair area? A heavy can move. This is huge.
-said engie helps top while saying the bottom crate is the best spot previously
questioning:
-cow manger explanation was... weird. damage penalty is only on buildings.
-you should briefly heal a scout if you have overheal mastery to slow the health decay.
That is the end of the video for the most part. I really would like to discuss what each classes' role is and what roles are required for mvm. Also Talk about bot ai more/positioning and the basics of that.
Thank you for reading and may we have a peaceful discussion.
edit: fixed 5 stab for med without assist. didn't know what math I was thinking.